Less places maybe, but lower requirements too. Also, I'd be preapred to put in the effort to get in, especially if a career in dentistry is "cushy" (ie. awesome :P ) as it sounds.
@ AussieChica - Beleive it or not, the first career I ever wanted was a scientist (when i was 8), because (i remember saying this) "they get to wear cool white coats." After some serious brainwashing during the years, my parent started preaching the virtues of medicine (most of which I ignored). Then, in Yr.10, I started watching House, Grey's, Scrubs etc and thought, "######, this could be a cool career!" I maintained this attitude until, well, until I cam here really. This site, as well as PagingDr, and visits to see doctors, has kinda made me realise that med isn't the uber career for all the smart ppl like i first thought. I also (with some help from Dr mal) realised that sometimes the most "prestigious" career isn't the best. I realised, that even if I did make it to the top as some elite neurosurgeon, making $500k, would it be worth it? would I have te TIME to spend the money? TO pursue some of my goals in life? To follow my dreams?
I realised that I wanted pretty much what any person wants from life - job stability, excellet pay, good working hours (see previous post - you get the idea) - and that Med isn't the only way to get that (*shock horror*). So yeah....
Although I haven't eliminated the possibiity of Medicine as a career completely, I think it's safe to say, if I had to choose QTAC preferences now, I'd be putting Dent at the top of the list.
@ titan - chicks may dig doctors, but good luck meeting them when you're working 50+hr weeks as a junior doctor lol, jks :P
Anyway, ALL the dental assistants I've ever seen see to be hot 20-somethings (one reason i used to love trips ot my ortho when I had braces). Yet another thing to make coming to work more appealing for dentists, i wonder? B)
Saturday, March 13, 2010
Because I know people who have become architects. When I was young, I dreamt of creating buildings nobody else had ever seen. But the reality of architecture is the same as the reality of any creative profession - you have to create what the market wants. I am lucky enough to have some talent with art, music, and cooking - I could pursue a career as an artist, as a painter, and as a chef if I had the appropriate training. But your survival depends on compromising your beliefs and producing what people will want to consume. Since I cannot see myself designing boring houses for a conservative marketplace I do not wish to pursue that career.
IN ANY CASE this thread is not about me. It's about what you will face when you finish your degrees and get out into the workforce.
I am quite upset to read the newspapers and read that all the brightest VCE graduates wish to pursue a career in medicine. If only they knew ...
IN ANY CASE this thread is not about me. It's about what you will face when you finish your degrees and get out into the workforce.
I am quite upset to read the newspapers and read that all the brightest VCE graduates wish to pursue a career in medicine. If only they knew ...
"extraordinary pay, nice hours, excellent employability"
if that is what you're looking for, by all means, go for dent. but just don't b too hasty in throwing out med, u've got 2 yrs to do it. but if one of your primary motivations is "looks like a good job, makes mum happy, fits into dream life scenario etc.", then yes, get out of med now.
if that is what you're looking for, by all means, go for dent. but just don't b too hasty in throwing out med, u've got 2 yrs to do it. but if one of your primary motivations is "looks like a good job, makes mum happy, fits into dream life scenario etc.", then yes, get out of med now.
Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread, but:
I have reconsidered my career path in the light on the wealth of information/advice given to me about medicine in this past year.
Having been always encouraged by my (stereotypical curry) parents to study hard in the promise of an "easy" life with a "high-paying" job in later life, I was somewhat shocked to hear all these accounts of dissatisfaction among docs. At first, I tried to block it out, but as more and more docs (on the net, and in real life) shared the view, i figured it would be wise to reconsider. I always thought at the end of Yr. 12 (or at the very lates, the end of uni) all the hard work stopped, and you could more or less "cruise" on in life...marry, buy a sweet-*** car/house, start a family, enjoy life etc. How very naive I was...
Being at an elitist private school, it's depressing to see so many hard-working, parent-obeying, naive academics say that they want to do medicine without any good reason - you know that they will eventually be dissapointed, but nothing you do or say can persuade them otherwise - it's some kind of drive implanted in their brains - get into med, make parents proud, earn money/prestige as a doctor. Once upon a time, I thought that too...
So yeah, without raving on without a point, i have reconsidered my career choice in terms of what people have said about medicine. I think i may have been able to deal with the crap hours, dodgy pay, and general bad conditions, but what pushed it over the edge for me was the lack of availability of accredited training positions. i mean, after working your sorry *** off to get into med, get through uni, and survive your intern/RMO years, do get a pat on the back, telling you "you've done well, here's something to make your life easier" (ie-a fellowship). No, you get another ~5 years of hell, but first you have to "sell your soul" to get their. I mean, W.T.F
But yeah, though I haven't ruled out med altogether, I would have to say that dentistry is beginning to look very attractive - extraordinary pay, nice hours, excellent employability (number of dentists is decreasing = ) and so on. It sounds almost too good to be true.....
But to all those doing medicine in spite of these pessimistic/gloomy comments, well I simultaneously applaud you for being determined and slap you ("WTF are you insane freaks thinking!!") :P .
I have reconsidered my career path in the light on the wealth of information/advice given to me about medicine in this past year.
Having been always encouraged by my (stereotypical curry) parents to study hard in the promise of an "easy" life with a "high-paying" job in later life, I was somewhat shocked to hear all these accounts of dissatisfaction among docs. At first, I tried to block it out, but as more and more docs (on the net, and in real life) shared the view, i figured it would be wise to reconsider. I always thought at the end of Yr. 12 (or at the very lates, the end of uni) all the hard work stopped, and you could more or less "cruise" on in life...marry, buy a sweet-*** car/house, start a family, enjoy life etc. How very naive I was...
Being at an elitist private school, it's depressing to see so many hard-working, parent-obeying, naive academics say that they want to do medicine without any good reason - you know that they will eventually be dissapointed, but nothing you do or say can persuade them otherwise - it's some kind of drive implanted in their brains - get into med, make parents proud, earn money/prestige as a doctor. Once upon a time, I thought that too...
So yeah, without raving on without a point, i have reconsidered my career choice in terms of what people have said about medicine. I think i may have been able to deal with the crap hours, dodgy pay, and general bad conditions, but what pushed it over the edge for me was the lack of availability of accredited training positions. i mean, after working your sorry *** off to get into med, get through uni, and survive your intern/RMO years, do get a pat on the back, telling you "you've done well, here's something to make your life easier" (ie-a fellowship). No, you get another ~5 years of hell, but first you have to "sell your soul" to get their. I mean, W.T.F
But yeah, though I haven't ruled out med altogether, I would have to say that dentistry is beginning to look very attractive - extraordinary pay, nice hours, excellent employability (number of dentists is decreasing = ) and so on. It sounds almost too good to be true.....
But to all those doing medicine in spite of these pessimistic/gloomy comments, well I simultaneously applaud you for being determined and slap you ("WTF are you insane freaks thinking!!") :P .
Well today at work I did a quick audit of some of the registrars. I said "if a person in year 12 asks you whether it is a good idea to pursue medicine, would you encourage or discourage them?". I asked this question to 8-9 registrars today and a couple of consultants. And a whole bunch of interns/RMO's.
In general the RMO's all said that they would answer a definite yes. One RMO said "I love it!".
The registrars either said "no" or "maybe".
The consultant said "why would anyone want to do medicine now? They must be crazy!". When I asked him why, he said that things had changed a lot from when he was an intern to now. Back then, there was less to know, so medical schools taught less theory and more practical medicine. When you graduated as an intern, you were actually capable of doing many things that 2nd or 3rd year RMO's are doing now. He said that an intern graduating in 2006 has none of the skills that we had, but instead have a lot of theoretical knowledge and a HUGE emphasis on all that touchy-feely stuff. He reckons that a 2006 intern needs 2 years of on-the-job experience before they acquire the skills that an intern in his day had.
This sort of mirrors my own experience. When I was an intern, I loved medicine and thought that I was so lucky that I had by fluke, chosen the "right" course which had put me in a rewarding career. Whenever I read about a doctor being sued, I used to feel sorry for the poor doc because surely the error may have been a misjudgement, but the decision must have been based on the best intentions.
Now that I have gotten older, I do not feel the same. I have seen SO MANY EXAMPLES of shoddy practice, poor decision making, preventable complications and preventable deaths, and iatrogenic complications that arise purely because of hospital culture (needlessly giving IV fluids for example). I now firmly believe that medicine needs to get it up the back end before doctors become motivated enough to reform our profession.
IN ANY CASE next year I won't be working regularly as a doctor any more. I will have some time to reconsider my future.
Oh, another thing - I don't mind 17 year olds, or medical students, or interns criticizing me or questioning me. Fear of authority is another really bad characteristic of doctors. So redorangish, if they want to see for themselves what medicine is like that's fine. Lots of people really enjoy it. But many others (like myself) do not. The trends and the way medicine is heading is not attractive
In general the RMO's all said that they would answer a definite yes. One RMO said "I love it!".
The registrars either said "no" or "maybe".
The consultant said "why would anyone want to do medicine now? They must be crazy!". When I asked him why, he said that things had changed a lot from when he was an intern to now. Back then, there was less to know, so medical schools taught less theory and more practical medicine. When you graduated as an intern, you were actually capable of doing many things that 2nd or 3rd year RMO's are doing now. He said that an intern graduating in 2006 has none of the skills that we had, but instead have a lot of theoretical knowledge and a HUGE emphasis on all that touchy-feely stuff. He reckons that a 2006 intern needs 2 years of on-the-job experience before they acquire the skills that an intern in his day had.
This sort of mirrors my own experience. When I was an intern, I loved medicine and thought that I was so lucky that I had by fluke, chosen the "right" course which had put me in a rewarding career. Whenever I read about a doctor being sued, I used to feel sorry for the poor doc because surely the error may have been a misjudgement, but the decision must have been based on the best intentions.
Now that I have gotten older, I do not feel the same. I have seen SO MANY EXAMPLES of shoddy practice, poor decision making, preventable complications and preventable deaths, and iatrogenic complications that arise purely because of hospital culture (needlessly giving IV fluids for example). I now firmly believe that medicine needs to get it up the back end before doctors become motivated enough to reform our profession.
IN ANY CASE next year I won't be working regularly as a doctor any more. I will have some time to reconsider my future.
Oh, another thing - I don't mind 17 year olds, or medical students, or interns criticizing me or questioning me. Fear of authority is another really bad characteristic of doctors. So redorangish, if they want to see for themselves what medicine is like that's fine. Lots of people really enjoy it. But many others (like myself) do not. The trends and the way medicine is heading is not attractive
We're not all 17 and we don’t all see the glass as half empty You can be a realist and an optimist.
Not every experience of working in Med will be universal and as such, it would be stupid of us to ruin what we see as an excellent thing based upon one testimony (although this truthful and evidenced based perspective is being echoed constantly now)...On the other hand, those who are giving us the info are where we plan to be at in a few years time and you are doing it for altruistic reasons...
This will sound pig-headed but they are our choices to make and a Med degree isn’t that wrong a move, if we believe the knowledge will be useful and the opportunities are there...MBBS graduates can go anywhere, including back to uni to do another degree if we feel it is necessary to do so...There are always other options out there?
I can’t speak for everyone in my generation but if the new IR laws are anything to go by we will all be on contracts anyway?…This brings its own job security issues but it also allows for freedom to change where we are, or barter for better conditions directly with our employer.
I hope medicine moves in a more positive direction but I won’t be waiting around for a miracle to happen if it isn’t. The progress seems to be happening very slowly; how many more young doctors suiciding will it take for change to occur? Surely one is devastating enough especially if it was preventable. Sitting back with a belief that “we suffered so you should too” doesn’t seem like the team-work camaraderie we begin Med school with…We shouldn’t become desensitised to this because we are now doctors competing for training programs.
So where will health be with a mass exodus of doctors? The gov pumps the schools with Med places while all the people who would be training us want to and are leaving…awesome
Feel free to correct me at anytime B)
EDIT: I still believe that Medicine as a career is what I want to do until my experience of working in it dictates otherwise...I know doctors who are fulfilled; although it clearly isn’t doing it for you, regardless of your love for Medicine. It seems that I have selective hearing but I'm happy to accept the risk?
Not every experience of working in Med will be universal and as such, it would be stupid of us to ruin what we see as an excellent thing based upon one testimony (although this truthful and evidenced based perspective is being echoed constantly now)...On the other hand, those who are giving us the info are where we plan to be at in a few years time and you are doing it for altruistic reasons...
This will sound pig-headed but they are our choices to make and a Med degree isn’t that wrong a move, if we believe the knowledge will be useful and the opportunities are there...MBBS graduates can go anywhere, including back to uni to do another degree if we feel it is necessary to do so...There are always other options out there?
I can’t speak for everyone in my generation but if the new IR laws are anything to go by we will all be on contracts anyway?…This brings its own job security issues but it also allows for freedom to change where we are, or barter for better conditions directly with our employer.
I hope medicine moves in a more positive direction but I won’t be waiting around for a miracle to happen if it isn’t. The progress seems to be happening very slowly; how many more young doctors suiciding will it take for change to occur? Surely one is devastating enough especially if it was preventable. Sitting back with a belief that “we suffered so you should too” doesn’t seem like the team-work camaraderie we begin Med school with…We shouldn’t become desensitised to this because we are now doctors competing for training programs.
So where will health be with a mass exodus of doctors? The gov pumps the schools with Med places while all the people who would be training us want to and are leaving…awesome
Feel free to correct me at anytime B)
EDIT: I still believe that Medicine as a career is what I want to do until my experience of working in it dictates otherwise...I know doctors who are fulfilled; although it clearly isn’t doing it for you, regardless of your love for Medicine. It seems that I have selective hearing but I'm happy to accept the risk?
All the best, Amfibius - I'm sure your background in medicine will give you an advantage in these other fields.
velox, I didn't think you were being rude. I just wanted to clarify things.
On that point though, has anyone read or heard of another person's experience in medicine and actually made the decision to pursue another career path? I'm not sure if I speak for most of us when I say that despite all of these negative aspects associated with medicine - there are still many ambitious people that are keen to take the plunge. I'm not sure how many of us are swayed by the dismal accounts. I think a healthy dose of the truth is good to maintain a realistic perspective - but is it honestly affecting the bulk of us? Personally, I think I'm too headstrong to not embrace the opportunity if I was accepted into medicine. At least that way I'd have seen it first-hand and not constantly ask "What if?" Am I deluding myself in thinking that my reasons for wanting to pursue medicine is enough? How does a 17 or 18 year old decide whether they have what it takes to find personal satisfation amongst the chaos?
velox, I didn't think you were being rude. I just wanted to clarify things.
On that point though, has anyone read or heard of another person's experience in medicine and actually made the decision to pursue another career path? I'm not sure if I speak for most of us when I say that despite all of these negative aspects associated with medicine - there are still many ambitious people that are keen to take the plunge. I'm not sure how many of us are swayed by the dismal accounts. I think a healthy dose of the truth is good to maintain a realistic perspective - but is it honestly affecting the bulk of us? Personally, I think I'm too headstrong to not embrace the opportunity if I was accepted into medicine. At least that way I'd have seen it first-hand and not constantly ask "What if?" Am I deluding myself in thinking that my reasons for wanting to pursue medicine is enough? How does a 17 or 18 year old decide whether they have what it takes to find personal satisfation amongst the chaos?
Liv, I think one of the reasons doctors can't or don't 'fight' for changes is because there's not much you can do is there? I mean, OK, so say that you get into a discussion with your superiors about fairer working hours and they disagree with you or simply dismiss your concerns. What can you do? Just stop going to work? Gather up your fellow doctors and stage a 'protest'?
Obviously, as a doctor you have enormous responsibilty to the community, I mean, you're the one who is literally 'saving lives' - if you go on protest, it's not like people are just going to conveniently stop getting sick. So you can't just up and leave. I think that's probably one of the main reasons why "seriously astute" doctors seem so masochistic sometimes
Obviously, as a doctor you have enormous responsibilty to the community, I mean, you're the one who is literally 'saving lives' - if you go on protest, it's not like people are just going to conveniently stop getting sick. So you can't just up and leave. I think that's probably one of the main reasons why "seriously astute" doctors seem so masochistic sometimes
Cheers Amfibius!
I see truth in your words and im not a doctor yet…The question is whether our lives will unfold the way yours has (and there isn’t a reason to say it wont). It is reading posts like yours (and sometimes Chinaski's) that make me think it wise to have a way out of Med, should things go awry because you feel trapped in a profession that is circling the drain (for the reasons we can cite above).
What seems surprising to me is how a bunch of seriously astute people cant seem to improve the situation...things always seem out of your hands (talking about the power struggles and not life & death which probably is out of your hands)...Doctors don’t seem the type to just accept something second rate yet we accept it for ourselves, and recreate it daily (a pattern of abuse where past mistakes aren't rectified); when better conditions, less hours, lower ratios etc aren’t fought for...Do you think this is because the situation really cant be fixed or that it would require enormous change (across the board) that will never eventuate; so you don’t see your perspective of Med changing...
I enjoy your writing style so I'd buy your book It is impressive that you can write like that after a few wines B)
I think I'll repost this when I haven’t worked >12 hours & it isn’t 2am :P It might make more sense
Would you change your mind about choosing Med as a career? Knowing what you do now? (The answer seem obvious reading between the lines but I'd appreciate an outright answer). Should we just try to be the CEO of the hospital instead
I see truth in your words and im not a doctor yet…The question is whether our lives will unfold the way yours has (and there isn’t a reason to say it wont). It is reading posts like yours (and sometimes Chinaski's) that make me think it wise to have a way out of Med, should things go awry because you feel trapped in a profession that is circling the drain (for the reasons we can cite above).
What seems surprising to me is how a bunch of seriously astute people
I enjoy your writing style so I'd buy your book It is impressive that you can write like that after a few wines B)
I think I'll repost this when I haven’t worked >12 hours & it isn’t 2am :P It might make more sense
Would you change your mind about choosing Med as a career? Knowing what you do now? (The answer seem obvious reading between the lines but I'd appreciate an outright answer). Should we just try to be the CEO of the hospital instead
Thanks, but I have no interest in starting a blog. A bit too self-indulgent.
IF the book I am writing ever comes out i'll be sure to let you people know
In any case the thread is about the future of medicine. OK to be fair it's not going to be all bad, but just look around and see how many unhappy / disillusioned doctors there are. We all start off with high ideals and want to keep our motives pure, and then we find ourselves trampled upon by petty bureaucrats who line their own nests while giving us hardly any resources to work with.
IF the book I am writing ever comes out i'll be sure to let you people know
In any case the thread is about the future of medicine. OK to be fair it's not going to be all bad, but just look around and see how many unhappy / disillusioned doctors there are. We all start off with high ideals and want to keep our motives pure, and then we find ourselves trampled upon by petty bureaucrats who line their own nests while giving us hardly any resources to work with.
Er, this was never meant to be a thread about me
trippy, I think i've probably got the wrong personality for the job. Like I indicated, in 2006 I would be eliminated in the interview process if I was honest about my motives. Although, as a smart Yr 12 kid I would have been able to tell them what they wanted to hear to make sure that I got myself in.
As for people who need my help the most - in my OWN opinion it's the people who want to be helped. Patients are not created equal. If I had a donor kidney and had to choose between someone who would comply with treatment and someone who was completely irresponsible, I would give it to the patient who would comply with treatment.
And yes there are times when I love my job. I love some of my patients and we have a great relationship. There are still a lot of people out there who respect you for giving them impartial advice. NOTHING beats the buzz of saving a life, just like nothing beats the depression of failing to prevent a preventable death. I can honestly point to many people walking around today and say that that person is walking around because of ME. Even if they don't remember my name.
I can remember many patients, long gone, whom I failed to save. There was a 21 year old who died on Jan 1, 2000. And a 35 year old girl who waved sweetly at me as she was wheeled into theatre for the very last time. Next time I saw her, she was a disembowelled empty shell with her expertly removed organs arranged neatly on the autopsy table. The pathologist was showing me an "interesting finding" in her liver. My mind was 1000 miles away. I could not help looking at my very dead patient and thinking what a lovely girl she was.
These things stay with you. Sometimes my fiancee sees me staring into space and musing about things. These are the patients I think about.
And let's be clear about this - I do not hate my job. I hate the direction the profession and health care is moving. I hate the waste, the meaningless trials, and the prostitution of medicine for commercial interests. I think it would be fair to say that I love medicine itself - it's just all the other rubbish that comes with the job that I hate.
trippy, I think i've probably got the wrong personality for the job. Like I indicated, in 2006 I would be eliminated in the interview process if I was honest about my motives. Although, as a smart Yr 12 kid I would have been able to tell them what they wanted to hear to make sure that I got myself in.
As for people who need my help the most - in my OWN opinion it's the people who want to be helped. Patients are not created equal. If I had a donor kidney and had to choose between someone who would comply with treatment and someone who was completely irresponsible, I would give it to the patient who would comply with treatment.
And yes there are times when I love my job. I love some of my patients and we have a great relationship. There are still a lot of people out there who respect you for giving them impartial advice. NOTHING beats the buzz of saving a life, just like nothing beats the depression of failing to prevent a preventable death. I can honestly point to many people walking around today and say that that person is walking around because of ME. Even if they don't remember my name.
I can remember many patients, long gone, whom I failed to save. There was a 21 year old who died on Jan 1, 2000. And a 35 year old girl who waved sweetly at me as she was wheeled into theatre for the very last time. Next time I saw her, she was a disembowelled empty shell with her expertly removed organs arranged neatly on the autopsy table. The pathologist was showing me an "interesting finding" in her liver. My mind was 1000 miles away. I could not help looking at my very dead patient and thinking what a lovely girl she was.
These things stay with you. Sometimes my fiancee sees me staring into space and musing about things. These are the patients I think about.
And let's be clear about this - I do not hate my job. I hate the direction the profession and health care is moving. I hate the waste, the meaningless trials, and the prostitution of medicine for commercial interests. I think it would be fair to say that I love medicine itself - it's just all the other rubbish that comes with the job that I hate.
Jellibelli there is no easy answer for the questions you raised.
The reason why I did medicine was for job security. When I enrolled, Australia was in the middle of a recession. I wanted to be an architect, but decided against that when I saw many architects retrenched. I never wanted to be retrenched. The second reason was because I was (like many of you) an ace in sciences.
Patients? What its like to be a doctor? I had no idea. Someone like me would be eliminated in the interview process in the new system as soon as I revealed my motives. Back then, I just had to finish in the top few 0.5% of the state and I was in. Maybe it would have been better for someone to pat me on the back and say "medicine is not for you, my friend".
Maybe it's different now, but back in my time most people would eventually admit that they did medicine for themselves and not because of some noble idea of helping people.
In any case, when you start seeing patients you wonder why you should be helping them at all, when they won't even help themselves! They don't give up smoking, they don't take their medications, they don't value your advice. Dialysis is one such egregious example - miss one dialysis day, and you will turn up drowning in the fluid that you can't excrete. This means that the dialysis staff have to get out of bed at 1am to save your sorry butt. All the while, they are thinking that they set aside valuable dialysis time to treat this patient which could be given to someone more needy on the waiting list. And a lot of people are like this - regularly miss dialysis, turn up to hospital at 1AM, and people still get out of bed, and come to work to save their lives.
And here is another example - I attended a medical emergency for someone who had a cardio-respiratory arrest for low blood sugar (took his insulin, did not take his meal). After 10 minutes I managed to bring him back. I said "we just saved your life!". He looked at me and said "Well that's your job isn't it!". Not a word of thanks. Well yes it is my job, but maybe next time i'll just have another coffee when the code blue alarm goes off.
How would you respond to something like that?
The demise of medicine as a specialty is not new. My father advised me strongly not to do it - which is very unusual for an asian parent. He brought me to meet some of his doctor friends and they all told me the truth - you will work HARD and not be appreciated. To a 17 year old who has just finished Year 12 near the very top, the world was my oyster. I did not believe them.
The reason why I did medicine was for job security. When I enrolled, Australia was in the middle of a recession. I wanted to be an architect, but decided against that when I saw many architects retrenched. I never wanted to be retrenched. The second reason was because I was (like many of you) an ace in sciences.
Patients? What its like to be a doctor? I had no idea. Someone like me would be eliminated in the interview process in the new system as soon as I revealed my motives. Back then, I just had to finish in the top few 0.5% of the state and I was in. Maybe it would have been better for someone to pat me on the back and say "medicine is not for you, my friend".
Maybe it's different now, but back in my time most people would eventually admit that they did medicine for themselves and not because of some noble idea of helping people.
In any case, when you start seeing patients you wonder why you should be helping them at all, when they won't even help themselves! They don't give up smoking, they don't take their medications, they don't value your advice. Dialysis is one such egregious example - miss one dialysis day, and you will turn up drowning in the fluid that you can't excrete. This means that the dialysis staff have to get out of bed at 1am to save your sorry butt. All the while, they are thinking that they set aside valuable dialysis time to treat this patient which could be given to someone more needy on the waiting list. And a lot of people are like this - regularly miss dialysis, turn up to hospital at 1AM, and people still get out of bed, and come to work to save their lives.
And here is another example - I attended a medical emergency for someone who had a cardio-respiratory arrest for low blood sugar (took his insulin, did not take his meal). After 10 minutes I managed to bring him back. I said "we just saved your life!". He looked at me and said "Well that's your job isn't it!". Not a word of thanks. Well yes it is my job, but maybe next time i'll just have another coffee when the code blue alarm goes off.
How would you respond to something like that?
The demise of medicine as a specialty is not new. My father advised me strongly not to do it - which is very unusual for an asian parent. He brought me to meet some of his doctor friends and they all told me the truth - you will work HARD and not be appreciated. To a 17 year old who has just finished Year 12 near the very top, the world was my oyster. I did not believe them.
Thanks for the insight to what it is really like Amfibius; there is no doubt that everyone else found this opinion very valuable and confronting.
I'm not sure if this opinion is valid but do the drug companies put the % mark-up on the prices to pay for the research that was involved in discovering the drug? The money must come from somewhere and I don't think government funding covers it adequately. Nonetheless, it is disheartening to know that politicians are taking over.
Is this demise in medicine as a profession a recent thing? I'm pretty sure there was a time when doctors were respected for the work they did and their contribution to the community. I wonder what happened in our world to change all of that. Perhaps there are too many lawyers, businessmen trying to cash in on health care - a service which will never fail to lose its demand. This is one of the reasons why I was attracted to medicine because no matter what happens in the world - people will always need doctors. Or so I thought.
Even though there are so many negative aspects of medicine, at the end of the day there are still so many ambitious, talented young people that aspire to be doctors. Is there no way of being immune to becoming an unapproachable narcissist? I know it's a cliche but isn't the primary reason why most people who want to be doctors is to help people in the best way they know how?
Amfibius, I'm interested to know what your reasons were for pursuing a career in medicine in 1991 and have those reasons been fulfilled? And also, what makes people stay in the game? What makes doctors, that are suffering from a poor, degrading system stick at it?
I'm not sure if this opinion is valid but do the drug companies put the % mark-up on the prices to pay for the research that was involved in discovering the drug? The money must come from somewhere and I don't think government funding covers it adequately. Nonetheless, it is disheartening to know that politicians are taking over.
Is this demise in medicine as a profession a recent thing? I'm pretty sure there was a time when doctors were respected for the work they did and their contribution to the community. I wonder what happened in our world to change all of that. Perhaps there are too many lawyers, businessmen trying to cash in on health care - a service which will never fail to lose its demand. This is one of the reasons why I was attracted to medicine because no matter what happens in the world - people will always need doctors. Or so I thought.
Even though there are so many negative aspects of medicine, at the end of the day there are still so many ambitious, talented young people that aspire to be doctors. Is there no way of being immune to becoming an unapproachable narcissist? I know it's a cliche but isn't the primary reason why most people who want to be doctors is to help people in the best way they know how?
Amfibius, I'm interested to know what your reasons were for pursuing a career in medicine in 1991 and have those reasons been fulfilled? And also, what makes people stay in the game? What makes doctors, that are suffering from a poor, degrading system stick at it?
Well it was me who wrote the above. I wrote it after having a few too many glasses of wine after a particularly bad day. If I wrote it again I would probably remove some of the stronger words like "corrupt" and "b******s" but it's in the public domain now. My opinion still has not changed though.
When I was a first year medical student (1991) one of my tutors, a lovely soft-hearted woman, told me that she had a chat with the professor. She said "what lovely kids these are". The professor said "yes, and see what we turn them into".
At the time I thought to myself that I would never become one of those arrogant unapproachable doctors feared by the junior staff. I would guard against my tendency to be brusque and try to be friendly an approachable to everyone.
Then I graduated and started working. In my intern year, I discovered that it's not only the patients who have unrealistic expectations of you. So does your unsympathetic registrar and consultant. You discover you have friends and enemies in the hospital. People who want to listen to your problems and sympathize with you. Then there are people who expect you to cope with your workload and send you threatening memoes if your discharge summaries start to pile up. Patients are not the only ones with unrealistic expectations - nurses, medical administration, and some consultants are the same.
To illustrate my point about unrealistic expectations, if you are an intern in some parts of Australia there is a fair chance you will be sent to a country hospital to manage the entire hospital after hours. This means seeing all patients in emergency, managing the wards, and managing the patients in ICU. I know this, because I just returned from a stint in a country hospital where I saw this happening!
Would an airline roster a 1 week graduate from flying school to fly a 737 by himself? Would a law graduate of 1 week be allowed to handle a big case by himself? Would a chef who graduated from TAFE 1 week ago be allowed to cook in a restaurant all by himself? The answer to all of these questions is NO. So why are interns straight out from medical school asked to manage an entire hospital by themself?
(I am trying to put a stop to this - I have approached my hospital to recommend that it should be a 3rd year RMO job with close registrar/consultant support).
Anyway, after a few years of this kind of abuse you become a different person. Last year I had a particularly difficult job where I was kept awake all night by frequent phone calls and expected to go to work the next day. A junior doc (who wasn't my intern) later said to me "geez, when you are relaxed you are actually a really nice guy". That REALLY drove home the point that I had at last, turned into that grouchy arrogant, unapproachable b****** that I had set out to avoid becoming.
Things have gotten worse in the past 10 years i've been a doctor. My starting salary as an intern in 1997 was $39,500. In the same year, I bought an apartment which cost me $110,000. It's now 2006, and interns are paid $42,000. I sold my apartment last year for $320,000. AMA (Vic) have negotiated a "pay rise" for salaried MO's at 3% a year - which is below the inflation rate of about 3.9% - effectively a pay cut of 0.9% per year.
So are state governments allowed to get away with this? Because doctors are a captive market. If interns/RMO's don't like the working conditions, what other options are open to you? What political power do you have? Are we organized as a group to demand better conditions? Will the consultants support you? Or will they squash your career like a fly?
As for myself, I am now 34 and a senior registrar. When I become a consultant, I face the same climb up the slippery slope - join a practice, listen to the senior consultant, have no rights of my own (beyond the right to leave and join another practice). Continue the same **** kissing that you get so sick of when you're in training. Cities are so crowded with specialists that a young consultant has no scope to establish himself on his own. The only other option would be to move to the country where there would be a demand for my services. But that removes me from having a hospital base and from contact with other specialists.
Oh, and it's the same thing when you become a consultant. You can charge the ridiculously low medicare rebate for consultations and get the patients nobody else wants. Or you could charge a gap and be pilloried by patients and other doctors. You want to deliver a good quality service, but economic reality will force you to downgrade your service.
I will be taking a year off and deciding whether I want to continue or throw in the towel. I have gotten pretty good (if I say so myself) at making money outside medicine - so I might do that full time.
When I was a first year medical student (1991) one of my tutors, a lovely soft-hearted woman, told me that she had a chat with the professor. She said "what lovely kids these are". The professor said "yes, and see what we turn them into".
At the time I thought to myself that I would never become one of those arrogant unapproachable doctors feared by the junior staff. I would guard against my tendency to be brusque and try to be friendly an approachable to everyone.
Then I graduated and started working. In my intern year, I discovered that it's not only the patients who have unrealistic expectations of you. So does your unsympathetic registrar and consultant. You discover you have friends and enemies in the hospital. People who want to listen to your problems and sympathize with you. Then there are people who expect you to cope with your workload and send you threatening memoes if your discharge summaries start to pile up. Patients are not the only ones with unrealistic expectations - nurses, medical administration, and some consultants are the same.
To illustrate my point about unrealistic expectations, if you are an intern in some parts of Australia there is a fair chance you will be sent to a country hospital to manage the entire hospital after hours. This means seeing all patients in emergency, managing the wards, and managing the patients in ICU. I know this, because I just returned from a stint in a country hospital where I saw this happening!
Would an airline roster a 1 week graduate from flying school to fly a 737 by himself? Would a law graduate of 1 week be allowed to handle a big case by himself? Would a chef who graduated from TAFE 1 week ago be allowed to cook in a restaurant all by himself? The answer to all of these questions is NO. So why are interns straight out from medical school asked to manage an entire hospital by themself?
(I am trying to put a stop to this - I have approached my hospital to recommend that it should be a 3rd year RMO job with close registrar/consultant support).
Anyway, after a few years of this kind of abuse you become a different person. Last year I had a particularly difficult job where I was kept awake all night by frequent phone calls and expected to go to work the next day. A junior doc (who wasn't my intern) later said to me "geez, when you are relaxed you are actually a really nice guy". That REALLY drove home the point that I had at last, turned into that grouchy arrogant, unapproachable b****** that I had set out to avoid becoming.
Things have gotten worse in the past 10 years i've been a doctor. My starting salary as an intern in 1997 was $39,500. In the same year, I bought an apartment which cost me $110,000. It's now 2006, and interns are paid $42,000. I sold my apartment last year for $320,000. AMA (Vic) have negotiated a "pay rise" for salaried MO's at 3% a year - which is below the inflation rate of about 3.9% - effectively a pay cut of 0.9% per year.
So are state governments allowed to get away with this? Because doctors are a captive market. If interns/RMO's don't like the working conditions, what other options are open to you? What political power do you have? Are we organized as a group to demand better conditions? Will the consultants support you? Or will they squash your career like a fly?
As for myself, I am now 34 and a senior registrar. When I become a consultant, I face the same climb up the slippery slope - join a practice, listen to the senior consultant, have no rights of my own (beyond the right to leave and join another practice). Continue the same **** kissing that you get so sick of when you're in training. Cities are so crowded with specialists that a young consultant has no scope to establish himself on his own. The only other option would be to move to the country where there would be a demand for my services. But that removes me from having a hospital base and from contact with other specialists.
Oh, and it's the same thing when you become a consultant. You can charge the ridiculously low medicare rebate for consultations and get the patients nobody else wants. Or you could charge a gap and be pilloried by patients and other doctors. You want to deliver a good quality service, but economic reality will force you to downgrade your service.
I will be taking a year off and deciding whether I want to continue or throw in the towel. I have gotten pretty good (if I say so myself) at making money outside medicine - so I might do that full time.
Yeah. My Dad would agree with some of the stuff that doctor's said... especially the above... unrealistic expectations of the community, e.g. people demanding their GP to sign their 'disability' payment certificate, demanding the doctor to make up **** so they can get their bloody dole payment and all sorts of other wonderful things like that. [This was VERY common in New Zealand... I'm not entirely sure if it applies to Australia... but I would assume it's not much different here.]
Would also like to add, I don't think that all doctors are 'corrupt', but certainly many of the doctors I've met (including even my own Father and his colleagues), in one way or another, have an obsession with money. You'd think it'd be different in a rural practice. But it's not really. The practice my Dad works at, well most of the doctors there are intent on seeing as many patients as they can... despite this decreasing the quality of the consult. And yet, they keep doing it.
Now of course, a whole lot of other factors come into play here, such as the fact that, rural practices are often very busy and doctors need to get through as many patients as they can. (crappy health system, shortage of rural doctors, blah blah blah)
But still... despite the shortage of rural doctors, even my Dad agrees that this stance of seeing a gazillion patients a day is definitely fuelled by the thought that more patients = more $$ baby...
And oh yeah, pharmaceutical companies are great... they sent my Daddy a birthday cake on his birthday... how thoughful.
Would also like to add, I don't think that all doctors are 'corrupt', but certainly many of the doctors I've met (including even my own Father and his colleagues), in one way or another, have an obsession with money. You'd think it'd be different in a rural practice. But it's not really. The practice my Dad works at, well most of the doctors there are intent on seeing as many patients as they can... despite this decreasing the quality of the consult. And yet, they keep doing it.
Now of course, a whole lot of other factors come into play here, such as the fact that, rural practices are often very busy and doctors need to get through as many patients as they can. (crappy health system, shortage of rural doctors, blah blah blah)
But still... despite the shortage of rural doctors, even my Dad agrees that this stance of seeing a gazillion patients a day is definitely fuelled by the thought that more patients = more $$ baby...
And oh yeah, pharmaceutical companies are great... they sent my Daddy a birthday cake on his birthday... how thoughful.
Medicine is a profession which has lost control over its own destiny. And the fault for this lies squarely on the doctors, who are mostly a bunch of useless cowards in denial. There are a lot of idealistic doctors out there who try to practice good medicine, but that would be less than 1/4 of all the doctors i've come across. Most of them are corrupt b****** who have gotten into bed with the drug companies and care little about the patients they treat, despite giving lip service to doing so.
Bureaucracy has now infiltrated every aspect of medicine. Want to give a patient the latest and greatest drug? You have to justify your decision to some faceless bureaucrat on 1800-888-333 (number for PBS authorities - I know it by heart) who can turn down your application if he can't tick all the boxes. How much do you get remunerated for your operation? Just look it up in the Medicare Rebates book. Because of this bureaucratic interference, the little yellow book has fuelled growth in the fields that are most profitable for doctors. Just look around you - how many people want to do gastro and cardiology? And why? It's because these specialties are well remunerated for not very much work. On the other hand, how many people want to be a country GP? Not many. Why? Because you work extremely hard for a pittance.
Don't believe me when I say that bureaucrats have taken over medicine? OK, go to a hospital. Look at the car parks - see where the bureacrats park their cars? Yup, usually in all the plum spots which are reserved for them. Where do the doctors (who do the REAL work) park their cars? Far away! Even a Nobel prize winner (we have a couple in WA) or an Australian of the Year does not score a better car park than the head petty bureacrat of the hospital. Yes, a small example I know, but it shows you how high doctors rate on their list.
Along with this has come the increasing corruption of the specialty by drug companies and other commercial interests. This malevolent influence has totally duped medicine and co-opted it to drive sales of drugs. Take the recent trial comparing PRN Symbicort vs. regular Seretide + PRN Ventolin - this showed that Symbicort was superior at preventing hospital admissions (no change in overall mortality). However, the obvious question was not even reported in the paper - what about steroid side effects from the increased dose of Symbicort? Or cardiac side effects from the increased dose of long acting beta-agonist?
Such skewed trials are distorting the principle of evidence based medicine and bringing up a new generation of doctors who will know nothing about REAL trials. The only trials they get to perform will be drug company sponsored trials.
Oh, and i'll get on my rant of medical academics. These guys only exist to see their name mentioned in journals. So you see paper after paper with their names on it asking and answering meaningless questions with shoddy research that is only fit for toilet reading. Academics are the worst kind of prostitution - they give the illusion of respectability but are the most corrupt bastards in the field of medicine. Rare is the academic who has NEVER received some drug company gratuity of some kind. In fact, I will venture to say that there is no such thing as a medical academic who has not (at some point) been involved in commercial interests.
And this says nothing of the increasing medico-legal pressure, the unrealistic expectations of the community, the expectation of free medical care, the increasing power of nurses, the lowering of standards in medical schools, increasing government interference ...
All of you are f*****. Get out of it when you can.
Bureaucracy has now infiltrated every aspect of medicine. Want to give a patient the latest and greatest drug? You have to justify your decision to some faceless bureaucrat on 1800-888-333 (number for PBS authorities - I know it by heart) who can turn down your application if he can't tick all the boxes. How much do you get remunerated for your operation? Just look it up in the Medicare Rebates book. Because of this bureaucratic interference, the little yellow book has fuelled growth in the fields that are most profitable for doctors. Just look around you - how many people want to do gastro and cardiology? And why? It's because these specialties are well remunerated for not very much work. On the other hand, how many people want to be a country GP? Not many. Why? Because you work extremely hard for a pittance.
Don't believe me when I say that bureaucrats have taken over medicine? OK, go to a hospital. Look at the car parks - see where the bureacrats park their cars? Yup, usually in all the plum spots which are reserved for them. Where do the doctors (who do the REAL work) park their cars? Far away! Even a Nobel prize winner (we have a couple in WA) or an Australian of the Year does not score a better car park than the head petty bureacrat of the hospital. Yes, a small example I know, but it shows you how high doctors rate on their list.
Along with this has come the increasing corruption of the specialty by drug companies and other commercial interests. This malevolent influence has totally duped medicine and co-opted it to drive sales of drugs. Take the recent trial comparing PRN Symbicort vs. regular Seretide + PRN Ventolin - this showed that Symbicort was superior at preventing hospital admissions (no change in overall mortality). However, the obvious question was not even reported in the paper - what about steroid side effects from the increased dose of Symbicort? Or cardiac side effects from the increased dose of long acting beta-agonist?
Such skewed trials are distorting the principle of evidence based medicine and bringing up a new generation of doctors who will know nothing about REAL trials. The only trials they get to perform will be drug company sponsored trials.
Oh, and i'll get on my rant of medical academics. These guys only exist to see their name mentioned in journals. So you see paper after paper with their names on it asking and answering meaningless questions with shoddy research that is only fit for toilet reading. Academics are the worst kind of prostitution - they give the illusion of respectability but are the most corrupt bastards in the field of medicine. Rare is the academic who has NEVER received some drug company gratuity of some kind. In fact, I will venture to say that there is no such thing as a medical academic who has not (at some point) been involved in commercial interests.
And this says nothing of the increasing medico-legal pressure, the unrealistic expectations of the community, the expectation of free medical care, the increasing power of nurses, the lowering of standards in medical schools, increasing government interference ...
All of you are f*****. Get out of it when you can.
Friday, February 19, 2010
Porfirio Rubirosa11-09-2009, 02:04 PM
How To Retire - must read. Golfers included
4 Pre-Conditions for Retirement
I retired in year 2000 at age 52. I am now 61, thus I can claim that I got more
experience at retirement than most!
I thought I should share my experience with mariners because I have seen too many
friends and neighbours
who became so bored that they have become a nuisance to their spouse and children and to
others!
A few of them have solved the problem by going back to work.
They were able to do so because they have a skill/expertise that is still in demand.
The rest (and many are my neighbours) live aimlessly or are waiting to die - a very sad
situation, indeed.
You can retire only when you fulfil these 4 pre-conditions:
1.Your children are financially independent (e.g. they got jobs)
2.You have zero liability (all your borrowings are paid up)
3.You have enough savings to support your lifestyle for the rest of your life, AND most
importantly,
4.You know what you would be doing during your retirement.
DO NOT retire till you meet ALL 4 Pre-Conditions. And of course you should not retire if
you enjoy working and are getting paid for it!
The problem cases I know of are those who failed to meet Pre-Condition #4.
When asked, "What would you be doing during your retirement?" Some replied, "I will
travel/cruise and see the World".
They did that, some for 3 months and then ran out of ideas.
The golfers replied, "I can golf every day." Most could not because they are no longer
fit to play well enough to enjoy the game.
Those who could, need to overcome another hurdle - they need to the find the "kakis" to
play with them.
It's the same with mahjong, bridge, badminton, trekking and karaoke - you need "kakis"!
Most could not find others who share their favourite game and playing/singing alone is
no fun.
AND when they do find them, a few of them found that they are NOT welcomed like my
obnoxious neighbour whom everyone avoids..
Thus if you are into group sports or games, you must form your groups BEFORE you retire.
You need to identify your "kakis", play with them and discover whether they "click" with
you.
The less sporty "can read all the books bought over the years".
I know of one guy who fell asleep after a few pages and ended up napping most of the
time!
He discovered that he did not like to read after all. We do change and we may not enjoy
the hobbies we had..
Routine Activities To Fill Your Week
For most people, your routine work activities are planned for you or dictated by others
and circumstances.
When you retire, you wake up to a new routine - one that you yourself have to establish
as nobody else would do it for you!
The routine to establish should keep your body, mind and spirit "sharpened". A good
routine would comprise:
a) One weekly physical sport - you need to keep fit to enjoy your retirement.
If you are the non-sporty type, you should fire your maid and clean your home without
mechanical aids.
Dancing and baby-sitting are good alternatives.
b) One weekly mind stimulating activity - e.g. writing, studying for a degree, acquiring
a new skill, solving problems or puzzles, learn or teach something.
You need to stimulate your mind to stay alive because the day you stop using your brain
is the day you start to die.
c) One weekly social activity - choose one involving lots of friends/neighbours.
Get yourself accepted as a member to at least 3 interests groups.
Unless you prefer to be alone, you do need friends more than ever as you get older and
less fit to pursue your sport.
d) One weekly community service activity - you need to give to appreciate what you have
taken in this life.
It's good to leave some kind of legacy.
With 4 weekly activities, you got 4 days out of 7 covered.
The remaining 3 days should be devoted to family related activities. In this way, you
maintain a balance between amusing yourself and your family members.
Any spare time should remain "spare" so that you can capitalise on opportunities that
come your way like responding to an unexpected request to do a job or to take advantage
of cheap fares to see places or to visit an exhibition.
Mind stimulating activities
Most judges live to a ripe old age. They use their brains a lot to decide on cases. I am
sure MM Lee's brain works overtime.
He's 80+ and still going strong. In "Today" you would have read of 2 inspiring oldies.
One is a granny who learned to play the guitar at age 60 to entertain his grandchildren.
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Porfirio Rubirosa11-09-2009, 02:05 PM
She's 70+ today and those grandchildren have grown to play with her.
Another is an Indian radiologist who on retirement, qualified as an acupuncturist.
He's age 77 and still offers his services (by appointment only) including free ones to
those who have no income.
I guaranteeyou that they are happy people who discovered a "2nd wind" to take them to
the sunset with a smile on their faces.
Mind stimulating activities are hard to identify.
They require your will to do something useful with the rest of your life, a mindset
change and the discipline to carry it through.
Your Bucket List
Despite your busy routine, you will at times be bored. Then it's time to turn to your
Bucket List.
Your bucket list contains a list of things to do before you kick the bucket. They are
not routine and are usually one off activities.
You need them to have something to look forward to.
These include anniversaries, trips (and pilgrimages), visits to friends and relations
abroad, re-doing your home, tending conferences (related to your hobbies), acquiring a
new set of expertise. 4 such activities that are spaced our quarterly would be ideal.
Retirement Is A Serious Business
If you can afford to retire and want to, do prepare to live to your fullest.
You need to be fit to enjoy it - therefore get into shape now.
You do not want to get up on a Monday and wonder what to do each week, therefore
identify your set of weekly routine activities now and try them out to confirm that they
are the activities that you will be looking forward to doing each week, week after week.
You bucket list of "rewards" or "projects" or"challenges" is needed to help you break
away from the routine thereby make live worth living.
Start listing what you fancy and refine it as you chug along in your retirement.
You will have so much fun, you would wish you were retired since your turned 21!
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Jabba11-09-2009, 02:51 PM
The retirees i frequently met are happily shouting "Picture!" on leisure world...and they dun seem to be short of kakis...
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SamuelStalin12-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Oh Portfolio Robinrose I LOVE GOLF!!!! ;);););););)
And for watching I smile when the greats strut the greens with their caddies while the multitudes of losers and journeymen just watch and follow from behind the approved lines.
Anyway I'm glad I'm not born too early. Those fuddie duddies, of course old people should be somewhat respected, but I'm also glad I'm not them living their kind of life. They are older and old, they feel unwanted by society, and, they seem to be quite clueless about how to live their lives upon getting older and retiring ie they don't really know what to do afterwards. Mid-life crisis. Really sad.
To be born later, the better.
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scroobal12-09-2009, 01:40 AM
Assuming you are financially secure, keep to this routine and you will be fine. Get in touch with old school mates (your age group), long lost friends and acquaintences etc. You are bound to find some that are in retirement as well.
Just pick a nice kopi tiam and meet on a regular basis. Get at least 4 kakis or more to cover absences by individuals attending family commitments, medical and other errands.
Don't plan too much, just start talking about politics, the Chua sisters, Chee, Old man, 9/11 etc. Cover local RC members who strut around like peacoks. etc.
When you work, you plan, you organise, you think ahead. In retirement, just get up, do the morning constitution and head to meet the khakis. Shoot the breeze. Every now and then, some will have bright ideas such as attending Photography courses, fishing, going to musuem and trying out Pure Blonde beer at the cafe, Lor 1, geylang for Briyani, Redhill for chicken rice.
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lifeafter4112-09-2009, 02:18 AM
Health, more than anything else is the most important.
Great piece of advice. Thanks!!!
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kingrant12-09-2009, 03:02 AM
All pretty good tips! Tks for the threads.
Agree with Porto mostly. However, finding something mentally challenging to do on a regular basis is not so easy. Even tuition or teaching - it gets boring after a while, esp. when the subject matter is kacang. Some people do sudoku, or play online word games.
Maybe can also extend that tip by scroobal - instead of just coffeeshop talk, which can degenerate to just empty gossip, I guess one can start some chess games with the kakis. Even with giant chess pieces on giant chessboards. That way, the rest can watch with ease. Of course, it is not de rigeur. Do as you please, at yr own time own target...
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Porfirio Rubirosa14-09-2009, 06:29 AM
just a quick add on...
nothing beats building strong long term meaningful relationships...better still to be loved and to have loved back...:)
All pretty good tips! Tks for the threads.
Agree with Porto mostly. However, finding something mentally challenging to do on a regular basis is not so easy. Even tuition or teaching - it gets boring after a while, esp. when the subject matter is kacang. Some people do sudoku, or play online word games.
Maybe can also extend that tip by scroobal - instead of just coffeeshop talk, which can degenerate to just empty gossip, I guess one can start some chess games with the kakis. Even with giant chess pieces on giant chessboards. That way, the rest can watch with ease. Of course, it is not de rigeur. Do as you please, at yr own time own target...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SamuelStalin14-09-2009, 07:27 AM
just a quick add on...
nothing beats building strong long term meaningful relationships...better still to be loved and to have loved back...:)
Oh yes I do have a strong long term meaningful relationship with my gramophone. Dad left it for me and we are together to this day. And whenever I need a tune from the old, peaceful days it never lets me down. You don't know how lovingly I clean it fortnightly as well.
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LonewolfAlfa14-09-2009, 09:09 AM
just beware. when getting in touch with long lost friends and making new acquaintences, u will definitely come across a few whom will ask u for a loan.
u are better off avoiding them.
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SamuelStalin14-09-2009, 11:43 AM
just beware. when getting in touch with long lost friends and making new acquaintences, u will definitely come across a few whom will ask u for a loan.
u are better off avoiding them.
Quite true actually. Most people are fucks most of the time.
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1sickpuppy II14-09-2009, 02:41 PM
Well I think I can retire in 4 years time then.
1. Both my housing loans are fully paid
2. All my children are working overseas and I don't think any of them will be coming back.
3. Will be getting my pension + rental from 1 of my houses and my savings.
4. Continus with my hobby of plastic modeling, gardening and taking care of my 2 dogs.
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scroobal14-09-2009, 11:16 PM
What you need to do immediately is to start networking to assemble a core group of likeminded people. Best of old schoolmates and ex-colleagues of your age group. Also need to create 2 groups (one with wife and one with the boys)
Don't do it when you retire or about to retire. The links tend to evaporate rapidly.
Enjoy.
Well I think I can retire in 4 years time then.
1. Both my housing loans are fully paid
2. All my children are working overseas and I don't think any of them will be coming back.
3. Will be getting my pension + rental from 1 of my houses and my savings.
4. Continus with my hobby of plastic modeling, gardening and taking care of my 2 dogs.
Sunday, January 10, 2010
23 March 2009
Mr Mah Bow Tan
Minister for National Development
HDB Hub
480 Lorong 6
Toa Payoh
Singapore 310480
Dear Mr Mah
Re: Request to Restrict Access of Sky Bridges of tttttttttt to Residents
We are future residents of yyyyyyyyy. We are delighted and impressed with the efficiency and professionalism that HDB has demonstrated in the landmark development.
There are about 1800 apartments that would house about 7200 residents (for an average family of four) in a small area. This is the first time HDB has experimented with such high-density development, the (severe) constraints of which we would never fully appreciate until the residents have lived together for many years. Thus we bought into the development with peace of mind that HDB would manage these constraints judiciously when it announced in the press that the sky bridges would be opened only to residents (see ST article dated 23 Nov 08 below).
Recently, some residents have called up HDB only to find out that HDB is planning to open the skybridges on the rooftop (Level 50) to the public. As much as we would like to share the scenic view from these vantage points with the public, we question the wisdom of doing so.
To allow an unlimited number more people to congregate on the rooftop of a tall building is an unthinkable and frightening scenario from a safety and security perspective. Especially when strategic resources such as water tanks are located at these places and when Singapore is prone to lightning strike. This is not to mention the logistical nightmare of supporting tens of thousands of people and vehicles descending into a small strip of land on festive occasions. In an emergency, no evacuation plan would be effective in such a situation. A disastrous loss of lives and damage to property could well be the consequence.
In addition, residents were reminded that they would have to pay service and conservancy charges that are much higher than normal rates to upkeep the sky bridges. Allowing public access to the sky bridges immediately removes this justification.
As future residents of this much talked about housing project, we call on HDB for some understanding that we are paying a premium price for our apartments due to the view and it would also be very unjustified, if not unfair to allow the public access to the roof garden. Although HDB may have its own "security measures" or certain timings of access, it would seem that the residents would not be able to enjoy their facilities (which they are paying for, of course) in peace.
On another note, ppppppppp is locating near office buildings and nightspots, thus it is unfair to expose our facilities to lunch-hour crowds or nightlife crowds. Furthermore, in events such as Formula 1, National Day, New Year's Eve and so on, it would be very unjust if residents have to face overcrowding on their own property, not forgetting littering and noise pollution.
As payers for additional facilities, we would take it to ourselves to upkeep the area and maintain cleanliness. Can we expect the same from the public? What is the distinction from P@D than a normal HDB if the public were allowed to access it?
In addition we also wish to highlight the other side of the equation - the public. If the public were able to access the roof garden during certain hours, what would stop them from writing in and complaining why they are allowed to access it normally but not during peak periods as mentioned above? This situation is of course if HDB were to put a stop to the public access during peak periods so as not to disturb the residents. Once a privilege is given, it is very difficult to take it away or to put restrictions to it.
We therefore appeal to HDB to honour its initial commitment to restrict access to the sky bridges to residents. We believe that this is the responsible thing to do where safety and security of the residents and the public is concerned. This would also demonstrate that HDB is a trusted partner to work with. Let us do all we can not to compromise the success of pppppppppppp, so that it can be a showcase for premium, high-density development to Singapore and possibly to the whole world for years to come.
We attach the article dated Nov 23 2008 from The Straits time which indicated that only residents would have access for your referral (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/news/2008/11/1770/top-of-the-world).
We look forward to your favourable reply soon. Thank you.
CC
Ms Indranee Rajah
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Assoc Prof Koo Tsai Kee
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Minister Mentor Mr Lee Kwan Yew
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Mr Baey Yam Keng
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Radm Lui Tuck Yew
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Mr Tan Chin Siong.
Member of Parliament, Tanjong Pagar GRC
Regards,
Future Residents of uuuuuuuuuuuu
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2. Name
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About Me
- hunterJet
- Crew member of 141 squadron at Tengah Airbase 1973~1975. Frequent Mcgregor club for billiard and Fish & Chip.