Q. What do bad times mean for the PAP, which has based its legitimacy on providing the economic goods and asset enhancement? Is its social compact with the people in need of an update?A

Oh yes. And my advice is: Go back to Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew's old credo, where nobody owes us a living. After I had just taken over as the Housing Board's chairman in 2000, an astute academic asked me: 'Tong Dow, what's your greatest problem at HDB?' Then he diagnosed it himself: 'Initially, you gave peanuts to monkeys so they would dance to your tune. Now you've given them so much by way of peanuts that the monkey has become a gorilla and you have to dance to its tune. That's your greatest problem.' Our people have become over-fed and today's economic realities mean we have to put them on a crash diet. We cannot starve them because there will be a political explosion. So the art of government today is to wean everyone off the dispensable items. We should just concentrate on helping the poorest 5 to 10 per cent of the population, instead of handing out a general largesse. Forget about asset enhancement, Singapore shares and utility rebates. You're dancing to the tune of the gorilla. I don't understand the urgency of raising the Goods and Services Tax. Why tax the lower-income, then return it to them in an aid package? It demeans human dignity and creates a growing supplicant class who habitually hold out their palms. Despite the fact that we say we are not a welfare state, we act like one of the most 'welfarish' states in the world. We should appeal instead to people's sense of pride and self-reliance. I think political courage is needed here. And my instinct is that the Singaporean will respect you for that.

Q. What is the kind of Singapore you hope your grandchildren will inherit?

A. Let's look at Sparta and Athens, two city states in Greek history. Singapore is like Sparta, where the top students are taken away from their parents as children and educated. Cohort by cohort, they each select their own leadership, ultimately electing their own Philosopher King. When I first read Plato's Republic, I was totally dazzled by the great logic of this organisational model where the best selects the best. But when I reached the end of the book, it dawned on me that though the starting point was meritocracy, the end result was dictatorship and elitism. In the end, that was how Sparta crumbled. Yet, Athens, a city of philosophers known for its different schools of thought, survived. What does this tell us about out-of-bounds markers? So SM Lee has to think very hard what legacy he wants to leave for Singapore and the type of society he wants to leave behind. Is it to be a Sparta, a well-organised martial society, but in the end, very brittle; or an untidy Athens which survived because of its diversity of thinking? Personally, I believe that Singaporeans are not so kuai (Hokkien for obedient) as to become a Sparta. This is our saving grace. As a young senior citizen, I very much hope that Singapore will survive for a long time, but as an Athens. It is more interesting and worth living and dying for.

NATIONAL Serviceman Dave Teo Ming was often caned by his mother when he was a young schoolboy and his father was in and out of jail for various offences.

His mother would beat him sometimes for no discernible reason or whenever she lost money on gambling.

And the beatings were no "normal beating'.

'The cane anyhow whack, whack until I got bruises,' he said in a psychiatric report submitted by the Institute of Mental Health, which was tendered in the High Court on Monday, when he was sentenced to nine years and two months, with 18 strokes of the cane for unlawful possession of a rifle, bullets and a knife.

The report presented a picture of his disturbed upbringing, scarred by constant beatings, rejection by his own mother who left him in the care of his paternal grandparents when he was in Primary one or two, after she walked out on him with his younger sister.

Teo's grandparents and aunt confirmed the beatings and remembered how traumatised Teo was as a child. They reported that his mother would even throw chairs at him.

After she left the family, the grandparents became the main caregivers to Teo and his brother who was two years younger.

Although he was not beaten as much, his paternal uncle, who lived with him, would punch and slap him if he misbehaved during his teens.

When he was 14, his younger brother was killed in a road accident.

This caused Teo 'to spiral downwards with disciplinary problems', said the IMH report. 'He was filled with anger and 'hated everybody''.

He became depressed and isolated himself from the family.

The behavioural problems and brushes with law continued, and he had to drop out of school at Secondary 3.

Possessive boyfriend

Teo started dating Ms Crystal Liew when he was 16. She was then 14. The relationship graduated to a sexual one when she turned 16.

By his own admission, Teo was a highly possessive boyfriend.

When she went out with her friends, he would feel extremely jealous and become abusive of her. He would call her up and demanded that she went home immediately.

There were times that he would hurl vulgarities at her and he also admitted that he had hit her several times, according to the IMH report.

In early 2007, Teo was posted for a short stint to Taiwan as part of his national service.

The couple continued to quarrel over the phone and in April last year, they broke up.

That was the final act and Teo snapped.

'He had nightmares about dying or being killed and in his waking hours, thought of suicide,' said the psychiatric report.

His sleep became disturbed, he lost weight over the next few months and he became withdrawn. His concentration became poor and 'his libido also dropped'.

In camp, he became easily irritated, and vented his anger by kicking the cupboard and being rude to his superiors.

He also began to hear voices of people who were not there.

Stalked ex-girlfriend

When he returned to Singapore from Taiwan, he started stalking Ms Liew, hanging out at her condominium and outside her school.

He even went absent without leave from camp to spend his nights at a stairwell at her condo. He was eventually caught and sent to the SAF detention barracks.

After he stopped contacts with Ms Liew, he went further downhill. He no longer cared about his appearance, became reclusive and started drinking to overcome his insomnia.

'He became self-destructive and recalls exercising till the point of exhaustion and then denying himself water,' said the report.

JUSTICE Tay Yong Kwang explained to Awol National Serviceman Dave Teo Min why he would have to impose a deterrent sentence before jailing him for a total of nine years and two months, with 18 strokes of the cane, for having a rifle, eight bullets and a knife.

In a display of compassion, the High Court judge on Monday told the 20-year-old, who had earlier pleaded guilty to the three charges: 'My heart hurts for you that so young a man will have to spend some of the best years of his life in prison and have to undergo so many strokes of the cane, but I trust that you understand that a deterrent sentence is unavoidable in the circumstances.'

Justice Tay said Teo had committed a very grave offence by taking a rifle and ammunition out of camp for his 'own purposes' - 'especially so in this age of increased security concerns everywhere'.

In his statement read out in court, the full-time NSman had told his army buddy, a pimp, that he had taken the rifle and eight bullets from Mandai Hill camp on Sept 2, 2007, to kill his ex-girlfriend who had broken off their relationship. He also said he was going to use it in a robbery and to kill five people who he hated.

In his pre-sentencing remarks, Justice Tay also advised Teo on what he should do in jail and on his release.

He told the NSman who sparked a 20-hour manhunt on Sept 2, 2007, when he walked out of Mandai Hill camp with an SAR-21 rifle and eight rounds of bullets, and was finally tracked down to a toilet in a shopping mall the following day: 'Dave, you have had a very hard life.'

'I hope that this unfortunate and traumatic wrong turn in your life will make you much more mature and a whole lot wiser and that you will spend the next few years reconstructing your young life.'

'I hope that you will pursue your studies, listen to good advice from counsellors and learn many skills while in prison and that, upon your release, you will have a life full of meaning and purpose to honour the memory of your grandmother and your beloved younger brother.'

'It has been written, 'To everything there is a season.' There was a time when you loved, there came a time when you hated. There was a time when you felt you wanted to kill, now is the time for you to heal.'

'There was a time you were broken down, now is the time to build yourself up. There was a time when you were at war in your being, now is the time to restore peace within.'

'In spite of your difficult childhood and in spite of what you have done, do not ever give up on yourself.'

How can you place the trust of the people in characters who won't even give a straight answer to a simple question? Asked whether he could be a People's Action Party candidate in the coming election, Ong Ye Kung said "If it happens, it happens."

The 41 year old had just quit his high flying super-scale salaried career in the recession-proof ranks of the civil service because he "happened to meet" Foreign Minister George Yeo this week, who also happened to ask "if I want to accompany him around his GRC". If Ong really had it in his heart of hearts to serve the people, why couldn't he have joined the private sector and still "continue my work for workers" in the NTUC? His move to NTUC as "an employee" was obviously a safety net, in case he misses the extra $190,000 allowance as a member of parliament. Not for his kind the rough and tumble of the uncertainties of the private sector. When Mah Bow Tan lost his maiden and straight electoral battle with Chiam See Tong in 1984, he had SPH to provide safe harbour until a GRC ticket was handed to him at the next election.

HE GOT INTO TROUBLE: Mr Kassim showing how he dozed off at Sun Plaza Park. TNP PICTURES: KUA CHEE SIONG, JONATHAN CHOO

IT was a 15-minute nap on a park bench. And it cost him $200 - equivalent to a comfortable night's stay in a three-star hotel complete with a soft bed and fluffy pillows.

He had dozed off on a Sun Plaza Park bench while taking shelter from the rain.

For doing so, the 62-year-old private bus driver, who wanted to be known only as Mr Kassim, was fined $200 by the National Parks Board (NParks).

The agency said Mr Kassim had misused the park facility by sleeping on the bench.

On 1 Sep this year, Mr Kassim was cycling near the park in Tampines when it began to drizzle. He decided to wait out the rain in a shelter at the park.

It was pouring heavily by the time he reached the shelter, so he lay down on one of the wooden benches, and dozed off after about five minutes.

'About 15 minutes later, I opened my eyes and saw that the rain was about to stop,' Mr Kassim told The New Paper.


FORBIDDEN: A man spotted snoozing in a park in Bishan.

'I saw two men walking towards me. I didn't know who they were. I closed my eyes again.

'Then I heard someone shouting, 'Wake up, wake up!' in Malay.'

When Mr Kassim opened his eyes, he saw the two men towering over him. They identified themselves as NParks rangers.

They asked for his identity card, which he gave to them.

But Mr Kassim was puzzled.

'I asked them, 'What have I done wrong?'

'They told me I had abused park facilities by sleeping on the park bench. They then issued me a ticket.'

Mr Kassim did not know that it was an offence to sleep on a park bench. But he accepted the ticket.

An NParks spokesman told The New Paper that Mr Kassim was fined as he 'was found sleeping in the park shelter with his colleague, and had repeatedly ignored our ranger's actions to wake him up'.

But Mr Kassim claimed that he woke up as soon as the rangers told him to, and that he was at the park alone.

He said there was another man also sleeping on another bench in the same shelter, but he did not know the man.

He claimed that the rangers approached the man and another man who was lying on the bench in the opposite shelter.

'It was the first time I'd fallen asleep in Sun Plaza Park,' said Mr Kassim, who lives in Pasir Ris.

It was also his first time at Sun Plaza Park.

'I've fallen asleep on benches in Pasir Ris Park before and nothing happened to me,' he said.

Five days after he was issued the ticket, Mr Kassim received a letter from NParks detailing his offence and asking him to pay the $200 fine.

When he went down to the NParks office to pay the fine, he claimed that he was told by a staff member that he could appeal.

Mr Kassim decided against appealing. It was too much trouble, he said.

He called The New Paper because he wanted to warn others about this little-known rule, lest they be fined too.

'I think most people don't know this. I'm the unlucky one, so I want to tell people not to sleep in parks, or they may end up like me having to pay $200,' he said with a laugh.

The New Paper asked eight regular park-goers if they knew that sleeping on park benches was an offence. None was aware. (See report on facing page.)

The NParks spokesman said: 'We try to create the conditions that make visitors feel at ease when they come to our parks. When people abuse our parks by overstaying or squatting, they make genuine park users feel uncomfortable.

'Others sleep on benches or in shelters in an inconsiderate manner and deny park users from using these facilities.

'During their daily patrols, our rangers will advise people who sleep or squat in our parks to stop misusing our park facilities.'

Since June this year, more than 10 people have been fined for misusing the facilities in the parks, the spokesman added. He did not say if these specifically involved sleeping on park benches.

But Mr Kassim pointed out that if sleeping on park benches was an offence, there should be signs to tell people.

On the NParks website, there is a list of 'Dos' and 'Don'ts' for visiting parks.

Sleeping on a park bench was not among the 'Don'ts', though there is a disclaimer which said the list was 'not exhaustive or intended to be a complete list of the prohibitions or regulations governing our parks'.

It also stated that 'any omission does not constitute a waiver of any offence'.

Park visitors can refer to the Parks and Trees Act 2005 and the Parks and Trees Regulations 2005, the website said.

Mr. K. Shanmugam, Minister for Law and Second Minister for Home Affairs, has commented on the hand cuffing of Lianhe Wanbao photographer Mr. Shafie Goh.

Answering Dr. Ong Seh Hong's question in parliament today, Mr. Shanmugam said that in this particular case, the issue was not about the photographer taking pictures of the flood, but about public safety.

Mr. Shanmugam said that after Mr. Goh was told to move off from the central divider, he did not go onto the pavement, but instead walked along the road next to the flooded divider and continued to take photographs.

The police officer advised him against doing so again but Mr. Goh did not heed the advice.



According to Mr. Shanmugam, up to this point, Mr. Goh did not have his media pass on, nor did he identify himself as a reporter.

The officer decided that he had to intervene directly and therefore went up to him and held his arm with a view to stop him from continuing to walk along the central divider and to move him to the pavement.

However, the Wanbao photographer struggled free and the officer handcuffed him on one hand to restrain him and take him into custody.

Upon reaching the pavement, Mr. Goh had calmed down and he produced his media pass for verification and to identify himself as a photographer from the media.

He was uncuffed after his identity was verified.

Mr. Shanmugam clarified the use of handcuffs in this situation as a necessity and was not intended to be an arrest.

"The police officer assessed that it was necessary to use handcuffs to restrain the photographer and stop him from continuing an action which the officer felt posed a danger to others and the photographer himself," he said.

"Looking at this incident with the benefit of hindsight, I think both parties could have handled the situation better."

Question:

Dr Ong Seh Hong: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs (a) what are the facts and circumstances of the arrest and handcuffing of the Lianhe Wanbao chief photographer over taking of photographs of the flood in Bukit Timah on July 16, 2010; (b) what are the guidelines for police officers when dealing with journalists and the general public taking photographs at public places where there are floods or other accidents; and (c) what are the guidelines for handcuffing them.

Mr. K. Shanmugam's reply:

Mr Speaker, the case in question happened in the morning of July 17, 2010, along Bukit Timah road near Maplewoods Condominium.

It was raining heavily and the rain had caused a road divider, which had been excavated, to be flooded. Ordinarily, the construction work would have been surrounded by safety barriers, but unfortunately in this case the safety barriers had been washed away due to the flood.

Motorists driving along the road were not able to see the depression. As a result, three cars landed in the depression.

Under these difficult conditions, the Lianhe Wanbao photographer had stopped his car illegally along the road at about 7.40am to take the photographs, causing an obstruction to other motorists.

There was clear danger not only to the photographer but to other motorists as well. A Police Officer at the scene therefore asked him to move away, which he did after he was told a second time.

However, the photographer returned shortly after and stood on the covered manhole within the flooded central divider to take photographs.

This was dangerous as there was moving traffic on both sides of the divider. The Police Officer therefore advised him to move to the pavement where it was safer for him to take photographs.

According to the Police officer, the photographer moved off only after repeated advice. The photographer however recalled only being told to move off once before he complied.

Be that as it may, when he moved off from the central divider, he did not go onto the pavement, but instead walked along the road next to the flooded divider and continued to take photographs.

The Police Officer advised him against doing so again. He did not heed the advice. Up to this point, he did not have his media pass on, nor did he identify himself as a reporter.

The officer decided that he had to intervene directly. The officer went up to him and held his arm with a view to stop him from continuing to walk along the central divider and to move him to the pavement.

However, the photographer struggled free and the officer handcuffed him on one hand to restrain him and take him into custody. Upon reaching the pavement, the photographer had calmed down and he produced his media pass for verification and to identify himself as a photographer from the media.

He was un-cuffed after his identity was verified.

The Member asked about guidelines for Police Officers when dealing with journalists and the general public taking photographs at public places where there are floods or other accidents.

The Police generally do not interfere with the media or members of the public taking photographs of floods so long as it does not obstruct Police operations and so long as this does not pose a danger to others or themselves.

In this particular case, the issue was not about the photographer taking pictures of the flood, but about public safety. Police had taken action as, in its judgement, public safety was involved.

The Member also asked about the guidelines for the use of handcuffs. Police Officers are trained to assess the situation when exercising discretion in using handcuffs.

Depending on the officer's risk assessment, handcuffs may be used if a suspect is violent or if there is a flight risk, or if a serious offence had been committed.

In this case, although it was not intended to be an arrest, the Police Officer assessed that it was necessary to use handcuffs to restrain the photographer and stop him from continuing an action which the officer felt posed a danger to others and the photographer himself.

The moment the need for such restraint had passed when the photographer had ceased such an action and had been moved to the safety of the pavement, the officer rightly removed the handcuffs and decided not to arrest the photographer for obstructing a police officer in the course of performing his duty after it became clear that the photographer was from the media and was trying to do his job.

Both the Police and the media have important roles to play. While the Police respect and understand the role the media has to play, the Police have a duty to ensure public safety and security.

We cannot allow our officers on the ground when performing their duty to ensure public safety and security to have their directions ignored.

Anyone who disagrees with or feels aggrieved by any such directions by a public servant doing his job can make an official complaint later and it will be thoroughly looked into.

But he must first comply with such directions or be liable to face arrest and prosecution.

Looking at this incident with the benefit of hindsight, I think both parties could have handled the situation better.

Nevertheless, I am glad to know that the Police and the media have discussed the incident dispassionately and have amicably resolved it.

Everybody have a PAST. The PAST that we want to keep buried and not resurface for others to know.

Mar 10, 2010
budget debate
Grants for med students abroad
By Rachel Lin

RESTRUCTURED hospitals are looking into giving pre-employment grants to Singaporeans studying medicine overseas, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan announced yesterday.

The grant will cover part of the students' university fees. Recipients have to serve a bond in Singapore after they graduate.

An encounter with a young party activist in his Sembawang branch made him realise the usefulness of the idea, which had first been thrown up by Dr Lily Neo (Jalan Besar GRC), said Mr Khaw.

The activist was leaving to study medicine in New South Wales, Australia. 'Among the 60 international students in her batch, she noted that 40 were Singaporeans!' the minister exclaimed.

Mr Khaw blogged about this on Facebook. In his post, he said that the ministry's aggressive recruitment of foreign medical graduates had worked, but Singapore students should not be neglected.

'I will figure out a way to help them in a meaningful manner and secure their return to Singapore,' he wrote. 'I am sure it can be done, to get our kids back!'

Read the full story in Wednesday's edition of The Straits Times.

RESTRUCTURED hospitals are looking into giving pre-employment grants to Singaporeans studying medicine overseas, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan announced yesterday.
Full Story
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The bond tied to this grant is a definite turnoff.

Better for Singaporeans studying medicine overseas to get a job in a hospital, in the country from where they graduate.
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government is realising the country is losing talents to other countries

why the NUS medical faculty cannot be enlarged over the last 30 years ?
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sg wanted to make sure only top students are doctors. but then they realize, second rate students can still go australia to get medical degree if they are rich. so, might as well bond them too.

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Too late for anything, don't you think? Instead of trying to get back those students who are aboard studying Meds,

why don't government change the system here in Singapore for our future Med students?

Why even bother trying to get them back when so many of us here are wanting to be what they want to be?

Stop thinking of a short-term solution, please? This is very very irritating for us, citizens of Singapore, to be

reading this and understanding that the government is looking for a short-term solution.

i won't be cheated by your grants. It is another form of bond that I have to serve, so that I have to come back

and practice in a local hospital upon graduating overseas. How cunning can you be? Shame on all of you to create

this so-called grants. Revamp your school system instead of trying to persuade us to come back.
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The Minister is working towards helping Singaporean. It is better than nothing being done now. For the benefits of our country, we should focus and works towards with the end in mind.
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I have to agree with plumki. Given the amount of time and resources needed to increase our medical school intakes, i think this is a good temporary arrangement. One, it will ensure an increased supply of doctors which are
we need now in numbers. With a bond, this supply is perhaps less volatile to market forces internationally.Two, it stems the brain drain of talent from our country, and the government has indeed spent significant resources into educating them frm primary sch all the way up. And three, singaporean doctors (overseas trained nonetheless) I think are a better alternative to foreign doctors, not just because of their ability to relate better, but I think because they already have a strong support network at home.

I think the issue here is how do we give such grants so as to maintain the high standards of the medical profession here. There are so many medical schools around the world, even on the approved list here. Each with different syllabuses and costs, how do we decide
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Even if you give grants, there is nothing worth coming back to Singapore for.

Singapore is for foreigners and PRs and not for local doctors
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plumkiwi672 & imwellfed:

You guys don't see the picture. Do you know how our university take in med students? Their current system is, you'll go for interview to waste your time. After which, they found that none of your family members are doctors or in the medical line, they'll reject your applications. Only a certain percentage of med students that does not have a family with medical line history will be able to get in the med sch. That is how pathetic our system is right now and obviously, the whole plan back fired at the government because all they want are elites and sad to say, majority of our elites are in overseas practicing medicine.

I agree with you that with this "grants" in placed, we'll have an increased number of doctors to serve our Singaporeans' needs BUT my point is that they still have not tried to change the system. So, what is the point of implementing the grants?
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Isn't it better for Singaporeans studying medicine overseas, to remain in that country and practice their medicine there.

Serving a 5 year bond?? in a restructured hospital here can be hell.

Further with the flood of cheap foreign doctors here, there is little prospect for local doctors.

JustACitizen, if what you say is true, then of course the internal system needs to be changed. I mean I have heard rumors about how the med sch might favour students with doctor pedigrees, but I dont think its the case. Plus theres no evidence to suggest that is the case. If anything, they might know the medical profession better, and as a result naturally stand a better chance gaining admission. I do agree with you though, we need to improve the current system of selecting students, as well as expanding our medical student intake. They need to be more transparent with the selection process rather than just dishing out the criteria for a start.

Also, i agree with BPL, there must be career prospects, good ones for them, or else they have less reason to return. Are overseas graduates now discriminated against local graduates presently? in terms of career opportunities?
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After doctor pedigrees, alumni ties matter next.

Raffles and ACS are favoured.
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On a side note, it does appear that they have realised rather belatedly that we now have an acute shortage of local doctors. I noticed that they were taking in a lot of Malaysians at the expense of Singaporeans. This forced many Singaporeans to study in overseas medical schools and to remain overseas after they graduated.

This has adverse implications with regards to the 'defence' of this island. It has probably resulted in the SAF having a shortage of doctors.

What if we were in a conflict with an 'aggressor'? Would we have sufficient doctors to treat the casualties, given that most of the foreign doctors will run away at the slightest sign of trouble?

This is a problem that they have brought upon themselves because of their addiction to cheap foreign doctors.
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Even local nurses are getting out as quickly as they can.

How do you fight a war without doctors and nurses.
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Two out of three doctors in Singapore are “foreign-trained”
January 12, 2010 by admin

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/01...reign-trained/

It doesn't make sense for Singapore to be entirely dependent on foreign doctors.
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Almost every single one of the students admitted to the one medical school and two local law schools here are rejects of overseas scholarships. Ask anyone from RJ or Hwa Chong in the know and who isn't deluded and they will tell you that, especially ask those in the top 2 classes. The rejected numbers make up about the same people who get rejected by PSC. What's worse is most of the rejected people who end up/get a place in the local med and law schools, are rejected by even the worst and lower rung of the scholarships (the stat boards). Anything who doesn't live a hole must know that scholarships come in different grades and ranks.

It is rather disturbing that the people in the supposedly most selective courses in the "universities" are rejects of top universities. This is why I have bought insurance funds to ensure my kids go to the US.
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MOH segregates all doctors (regardless of citizenship) according to where they are trained, traditional and non traditional sources.

Even if the doctor is Filipino or Malaysian or Indian, if trained in the UK/Australia/Ireland/US/Canada, they are considered traditional sources. There are many Singaporeans who choose to go to UK and Ireland, where their medical schools are way superior. In fact, less than 10 students in the local medical school will be able to make it to Cambridge.

Non traditional sources are doctors who received training in a third world country - India, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc

Anyone who patronizes Temasek Review is an illiterate peasant who can't tell his balls apart from his face. No need to give any weight to their opinion or hear them whine or orgasm, which is worth nothing.


fatsofatso
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fatsofatso

March 11, 2010 Thursday, 06:06 PM

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MOH eagerly courts all doctors, as long as they are trained in traditional source. This is because the local trained ones have to serve 5 yrs, no need to court.

The courting is done to both Singaporean doctors trained in UK/Ireland/Australia (to encourage them to come home and not stay overseas) as well as foreign doctors trained in these traditional sources. go to salary.sg and the MOH admin is even there to answer the queries of these foreign doctors. Doctors trained in first world countries are most certainly MOH's first choice.

A lot of doctors trained in first world countries, including Singaporean doctors, consider and do work overseas in first world countries like Australia/UK instead of coming back. Australia and US recognise medical degrees from the UK and Ireland and waives the need to take further entrance exams if the doctor is from an approved UK/Irish university.


fatsofatso
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fatsofatso

March 11, 2010 Thursday, 06:07 PM

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We need to encourage more doctors, whether Singaporean or foreign, who had trained in first world countries to come to Singapore. This will control our healthcare costs and also hopefully these doctors (both Singaporean or foreigner) will stay in Singapore and not make elsewhere their homes.


fatsofatso
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calvinacheng

March 11, 2010 Thursday, 08:16 PM

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People who study overseas generally don't wanna return. Period.

Once you have tasted the greener pastures and had your mind opened, the process is irreversible.

Woe be to the froggies in the well here in NUS. Little red dot,..little indeed
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from temasek review.. where else?
10 most unforgettable quotes from PAP MPs during the recent parliamentary “debate”
but you won't EVER read this in the ST!!!


The PAP has always boasted that their MPs are the best talents in Singapore. The parliamentary sessions last week had been an eye-opener to see these MPs flaunt their “talents”.

Based on their speeches, it is quite obvious that many of them, with the exception of Inderjit Singh are living high up in their own ivory towers and completely out of touch with the ground.

This is not surprising given the fact that some had found their ways into Parliament without contesting an election. Tanjong Pagar MP Koo Tsai Kee, for example, had been a MP since 1991. He had never fought in an election before.

From the most callous to the most juvenile remarks, we compiled them into a list here for our readers to enjoy, recap and to remember when the next election comes:

10. Dr Vivian Balakrishnan (Holland-Bukit Timah GRC) on why he has ordered the removal of homeless Singaporeans camping out in the public (forcefully):

“I have taken such an active stand to make sure we do not have people camping out on beaches, or parks or void decks, even though these may be safe and indeed, sometimes even pleasant areas for adults. These are not good and safe areas for children. And so I have insisted that (to) anyone with children. The children must be put in a proper home; they must continue to go to school. They must continue to get access to good food, good hygiene”

9. Jessica Tan (East Coast GRC) expressing her worries that the hike in foreign worker levy will turn away foreigners:

“The hike in the foreign worker levy which if not calibrate, will send the wrong signal to companies looking to invest in Singapore or to foreign talents that the country is not open.”

8. Josephine Teo (Bishan-Toa Payoh GRC) rejecting WP MP Low Thia Kiang’s suggestion to scrap the foreign worker levy:

“”I can speak on behalf of the union leaders that we totally and firmly reject Mr Low’s disastrous suggestion that we remove the foreign worker levy as it will harm our workers’ interest.”

7. Seah Kian Peng (Marine Parade GRC) asking the PAP to spend more taxpayers’ monies to help the new citizens feel welcomed in Singapore:

“We have not done any large scale survey, we do not know their problems but we have already gone ahead and decided that the funds will go towards organizing activities…..What we ought to do is first – find out what new Singaporeans need, and then target funding at helping them meet these needs.”

6. Teo Chee Hean (Pasir Ris-Punggol GRC) on the ruling party’s renewed focus on productivity which has declined consecutively for the last three years and being caught napping during a speech made by DPM Wong Kan Seng:

““We are now a more developed economy – further up the productivity curve. We have made progress, but those ahead of us have also progressed and moved up as well. And those behind us have made rapid advances and are catching up with us.”

5. Koo Tsai Kee (Tanjong Pagar GRC) trying to lick the boots of his superior, Teo Chee Hean:

“The SAF, despite its manpower constraints, has been able to face up to a widening range of security threats in recent years under Defence Minister Teo….And I am not saying this because he’s my boss.”

4. Baey Yam Keng (Tanjong Pagar GRC) who told the media a few days ago that he planned to raise issues concerning his residents in Parliament

“Food is an important part of our rich cultural heritage – one which has been and will always been an attraction to locals and foreigners alike……The Food Museum could delve into aspects of local cuisine, such as ‘why Hong Kong noodles did not originate from Hong Kong’, and ‘why our Hainanese chicken rice is different from that found in Hainan Island’” .

3. Mah Bow Tan (Tampines GRC) who appeared lost after being grilled by fellow PAP MP Inderjit Singh:

“PRs make up only one in five resale flat buyers and have minimal impact on resale prices.”

2. Ong Ah Heng (Yishun Central) in an impassioned speech to defend foreign workers:

“I know of one family who complain the cleaners in their precinct are lazy and too old. They don’t want local workers who are old, they want young foreign workers. To satisfy the demand, I changed the local workers to foreign workers. Foreign workers are not a burden to us. Their presence here is not negative. Without foreign workers, things will be worse.”

And the quote of the year so far goes to Lim Swee Say for revealing the truth about the PAP MPs – that they are deaf to all feedback and criticisms.

1. Lim Swee Say (Holland-Bukit Timah GRC) to Low Thia Kiang for bruising his ego:

“We never give up……. We are deaf to all these criticisms…..So instead of telling us that low-wage workers are having problems, why not be part of the solution?”

We can’t really blame them for being deaf when they have been taught all along to sing in tune with their piper master PAP’s octogenarian leader Lee Kuan Yew:

“To be the prime minister, you don’t have to know every instrument, but you got to recognise, ah, he’s a good violinist, he’ll be the first violinist, he’ll be the double bass. He will play the viola, he will have the trumpet, he will do the drums. Then you coordinate them and then you have great music. And if you already have a great orchestra, you can put a dummy there and you still got great music.”

[Source: Channel News Asia, 5 March 2008]

Singaporeans, do you still see any value in voting for the PAP in the next election? This are the kind of MPs you will get raising your concerns in Parliament! And don’t forget you are paying them $13,000 monthly to sprout such highfalutin stuff!

Remember the PAP election slogan of 2006 – “Staying together, Moving ahead”? The PAP MPs are indeed staying together and moving ahead without us! While the pay of the PAP ministers, ministers of states and parliamentary secretaries are expected to increase by 8.8 percent this year, will you even dream of a pay rise?

When your PAP MP put up a “wayang” house visit to your home in the next few months before the election and pretend to “listen” to you, don’t forget this gentle reminder from Lim Swee Say:

“We are DEAF to all criticisms!”
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foreign doctor can doctor their certificate , so no need good pay
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Even with the Singaporean doctors returning from overseas plus Singapore trained local doctors here, its not enough because of the population explosion, that's why need to attract doctors from non traditional sources. The reason nobody here knows this, is because most of the people here are retards.

Anyway nobody in the local med school will be able to get into top medical schools like Cambridge. Rich kids with money and can make it to Cambridge like Ivor Lim, please don't stay here and waste your life.


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shamelesspeasant

March 11, 2010 Thursday, 09:00 PM

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MOH please recruit ONLY foreign doctors trained in 1st world countries, which is what you call the "traditional sources". A recent ST story already highlighted that mistakes made by doctors trained in non traditional sources eg China, Bangladesh, India, etc are significantly higher. This is the people's health and safety at stake leh.
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http://www.straitstimes.com/Singapor...ry_493615.html

A STUDY by National University Hospital (NUH) doctors has found that patients treated by medical officers at its emergency department were twice as likely than those seen by specialists to make unscheduled return visits for more treatment.

But the percentage of these medical officers' patients returning for additional or corrective treatment for the same complaint is small - 489 out of 22,529 patients, or a return rate of 2.17 per cent.

In contrast, the return rate among patients seen by its specialists was less than 1 per cent.

Corresponding figures for the other hospitals were unavailable.

The return rate for the entire emergency department is also small - just 842 patients, or 2.2 per cent, of the 38,414 patients handled.

The hospital has nonetheless acted to bring down the figure.

Dr Malcolm Mahadevan, a senior consultant in NUH's emergency department, said the difference in return rates may be because those seen by specialists tend to be more serious cases and likely to already be in-patients.

The study he did in 2005 with a colleague, Dr W.S. Kuan, was published recently in the Singapore Medical Journal.

It also unearthed other patterns among NUH's return patients: One was that patients who sought emergency treatment in the wee hours of the morning were the most likely to return for more treatment - a return rate of 3.4 per cent.

The authors of the study concluded that the higher return rate between midnight and 8am was the result of fewer doctors being on duty, fatigue among those who were working, and less supervision by senior doctors.

Another trend was that the return rate among patients of doctors from 'non-traditional sources', such as the Philippines or India, was higher than that of the medical officers, at 2.54 per cent.

Doctors trained in the United States, Europe or Australia are deemed as having been drawn from 'traditional' sources.

Dr Mahadevan said NUH's overall return rate of 2.2 per cent was comparable to published rates in hospitals elsewhere.

The overall return rate at Singapore General Hospital (SGH) is between 1 per cent and 1.5 per cent; the rate has been less than 2 per cent at KK Women's and Children's Hospital (KKH) since 2007.

Changi General Hospital (CGH) does not differentiate between scheduled and unscheduled returns.

Although none of NUH's return patients in the study died, several had serious illnesses and 307 had to be admitted. Dr Mahadevan said: 'It is not possible to totally eliminate re-attendances because of the progression of certain diseases.'

To lower its return rate, NUH has doubled the number of beds in its emergency department, so patients - those with abdominal pains, which are harder to diagnose, for example - can be observed for a longer period to ensure they do not need hospitalisation.

It has also begun giving patients intravenous fluids to forestall dehydration, which has been identified as one reason for unscheduled return visits following discharge.

The hospital has since also increased the number of doctors on duty on the midnight shift.

Other hospitals have also done this to lower their return rates.

Dr Fatimah Lateef, an emergency medicine specialist at SGH, said the dip in SGH's rate over the years was partly due to the hospital deploying senior doctors to vet cases.

SGH's emergency medicine head, Dr Mark Leong, added that a senior doctor is on duty 24 hours a day all year round. This has been so for the last 10 years.

KKH also has a senior doctor on duty at all times, while CGH has between two and four on duty round-the-clock.

CGH's emergency department head, Dr Mohan Tiru, said that since last October, patients have been given a number to call for advice if they notice a change in their condition while they are at home, so they will know what to do to prevent their condition from getting worse.

Dr Mahadevan's study recommended that proper discharge advice be given to patients at NUH as well.

He said: 'Despite a year-on-year increase in our A&E patient volume, the unscheduled return rate has remained stable over the last five years. I think this showed that our initiatives have worked.'
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PrivateLimited,

"It is rather disturbing that the people in the supposedly most selective courses in the "universities" are rejects of top universities. This is why I have bought insurance funds to ensure my kids go to the US."

- theres a difference between getting rejected by THE AWARDING COMMITTEE and getting rejected by THE UNIVERSITY itself. want to invest in yourself while your're at it?
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Rejected by BOTH. They are also rejected by Oxbridge and HYPSM. Just goes to show what a frog in a well you are!!! GO ASK YOUR FARMER FRIENDS!

Only 3 Singaporeans get into Harvard undergrad every yr. My ex classmate with 4As and 1 S merit did not even get a rejection from Oxford. He was rejected without the dignity of a reply.

Stupid NUS frog in the well. This is what happens when people stay behind here.
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And fewer than 5 to 7 Singaporeans make it to MIT undergrad.

Whats the stats for law school? More than 500! Med and law in total? More than 750. You're making a huge fool of yourself.
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PrivateLimited, although i would agree with you wholeheartedly that oxbridge and HYPSM are more selective in their admissions, I think it would be unfair to say that our med and law schools are composed of rejected applicants. Perhaps the average quality of these students may not be as good, but I am sure some are definitely comparable.

It is true though that there are many students in these schools that might not have chosen their current paths, if given a better scholarship or university place overseas. The onus is thus on the interview panels to weed out those who lack genuine interest in these courses.

A grant to lure them home?
Pre-employment grant could help with high costs of studying abroad, says Khaw
by Alicia Wong

05:55 AM Mar 10, 2010

SINGAPORE - When a medical student told him that at her university in Australia, 40 of the 60 international students in her batch were Singaporeans, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan had vowed on Facebook to "find a way to 'get our kids back' to Singapore".

"And I will," he reaffirmed yesterday, sharing with Parliament how he might go about doing so.........

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore...lure-them-home

Isn't it too little too late.

Singaporeans studying medicine overseas are not going to come back.

NUS medical school should offer more places to Singaporeans instead of training foreigners.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatsofatso
Anyone who patronizes Temasek Review is an illiterate peasant who can't tell his balls apart from his face. No need to give any weight to their opinion or hear them whine or orgasm, which is worth nothing.

Don't get your panties tied up in a knot. Temasek Review is meant for Singaporeans who are fed up with being forced fed BS and lies.

Certainly not for bootlickers who spend 24/7 kissing their master's s.
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Might be useful for ppl who are yet to embark.
For those already there - very few would bite - did you actually think that ppl went overseas HOPING that this scheme will be announced?
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NUS medical school should declare the number of foreigners it accepts in each cohort.

Singapore's addiction to foreigners should not result in the SAF having insufficient doctors
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just because you have friends who failed in BOTH, doesn't mean everyone else does.

not everyone hankers over a scholarship deal, especially when mummy and daddy can well afford it.
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so whats this about buying that "insurance fund"?..... if your kids are stupid, they are stupid.

you can only TRY and buy them a decent education and hope for the best.
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Wow, this forum is defintely infested with as many atheletic canines for certain other tribes as 'bootlickers, the way, they infest every thread with irrelevant comments that clearly point to their being of this exotic species belonging to the other tribes!!!

Grants for S'poreans studying medicine abroad

By Rachel Lin

RESTRUCTURED hospitals are looking into giving pre-employment grants to Singaporeans studying medicine overseas, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan announced yesterday.

The grant will cover part of the students' university fees. Recipients have to serve a bond in Singapore after they graduate.


An encounter with a young party activist in his Sembawang branch made him realise the usefulness of the idea, which had first been thrown up by Dr Lily Neo (Jalan Besar GRC), said Mr Khaw.

The activist was leaving to study medicine in New South Wales, Australia. 'Among the 60 international students in her batch, she noted that 40 were Singaporeans!' the minister exclaimed.

Mr Khaw blogged about this on Facebook. In his post, he said that the ministry's aggressive recruitment of foreign medical graduates had worked, but Singapore students should not be neglected.

'I will figure out a way to help them in a meaningful manner and secure their return to Singapore,' he wrote. 'I am sure it can be done, to get our kids back!'

The tuition fees for the Sembawang activist's medical degree amounted to over $40,000 a year, Mr Khaw said in his blog post.

She did not qualify for medical school at the National University of Singapore but still wanted to be a doctor, he said.Be 100% confident banking online with DBS iBanking money safe guarantee

According to a Health Ministry spokesman, an estimated 150 Singaporeans go overseas to study medicine each year.

'The number of fresh Singaporean graduates with overseas medical degrees coming back to practise every year has more than doubled from 14 in 2005 to 38 in 2009,' the spokesman said.

Another 130 returned between 2005 and 2009 after their housemanship or after working a few years overseas.

Miss Grace Tay, 21, a third-year medical student at University College Dublin, welcomed the proposed grant. She is considering working in Ireland.

'If I had been given this option in first year, I would have been very happy to come back to Singapore,' she said.

'It would benefit me a lot, but for the very well-off, it wouldn't make much of a difference. Needy students would benefit the most and be motivated to come back.'

Her tuition fees are around $55,000 a year.

The proposed grant is in line with the ministry's $1.5 billion plan, launched in 2007, to recruit 7,700 more health-care professionals in five years.

So far, the target remains in sight, Mr Khaw told the House. Last year, headcount went up by 44 per cent compared to 2006. There were eight doctors and 26 nurses for every 10 hospital beds, up from six doctors and 20 nurses in 2006.

Staff attrition levels declined over the same period, from 8 per cent to 6 per cent for doctors and 10 per cent to 7 per cent for nurses.

'I met a group of hospital medical social workers last month,' Mr Khaw said. 'They told me that, with so many new recruits, many have no offices. Hospitals are rushing to add new work stations.'

The ministry is also setting aside $120 million to enhance its specialist training programmes over the next five years.

'This will allow every young doctor to reach his maximum potential in his chosen speciality, including as a family physician,' the minister explained.

Nurses are not excluded. The ministry aims to train 200 new advanced practice nurses in the next five years.

There are currently 37 such nurses on the register.

These nurses hold master's degrees in nursing and undergo a special internship. They are equipped with the skills to perform tasks that are otherwise assigned to junior doctors, such as interpreting diagnostic tests.

SINGAPORE - When a medical student told him that at her university in Australia, 40 of the 60 international students in her batch were Singaporeans, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan had vowed on Facebook to "find a way to 'get our kids back' to Singapore".

"And I will," he reaffirmed yesterday, sharing with Parliament how he might go about doing so.

Singaporeans who want to study medicine overseas, a highly expensive undertaking, could one day be able to tap a Government grant.

"The restructured hospitals are studying an idea of offering a pre-employment grant to these medical students, to help them with their cost overseas, in return for a bond to serve after they graduate," said Mr Khaw.

According to the Ministry of Health (MOH), about 150 Singaporeans head overseas to study medicine every year. But from 2005 to 2009, only 110 returned after graduation, while another 130 returned after their housemanship or working a few years.

In the case of the young medical student that Mr Khaw cited, she had applied - unsuccessfully - to the NUS Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine. Determined as she was to be a doctor, and despite the strain of the more-than-$40,000 tuition fee per year, her parents supported her move to Sydney.

While Singapore will continue its "aggressive recruitment" of foreign medical graduates, Mr Khaw wrote in his Feb 9 post, locals like her who struggle financially are also on his mind for some "meaningful" help.

The proposal of a grant comes six months after Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong signalled that Singapore would continue to look at ways to expand the core pool of local doctors, even after raising the annual intake at medical schools here to 350 new doctors a year. This number would still not be enough to cope with a growing and ageing population, Mr Lee had noted.

Ms Melanie Tan, 18, now scouting for schools abroad, believes a grant would ease the financial burden of studying overseas, and even sway her mind about possibly not returning to Singapore after graduation.

But how long should the bond be? That could depend on the size of the grant offered.

Singapore Medical Association president Chong Yeh Woei, who welcomed the idea of the financial leg up, noted that five years of medical school in the United Kingdom could cost at least $500,000. Hospitals would have to work out how sizeable a grant they can afford, said chief executive of Changi General Hospital T K Udairam.

MP Lily Neo (Jalan Besar GRC) - whom Mr Khaw credited with coming up with the idea of the grant several years back - suggested the Government could take its cue from the current system where local medical students are bonded for five years after graduation. After Government subsidy, they pay roughly $80,000 in tuition fees for five years, said Dr Neo and Dr Chong.

Mr Udairam feels most students would view the bond positively in terms of an assured job after they graduate. Medical student Joel Tan, 21, agreed: "It has become increasingly hard to find internship places overseas especially in Australia, where ... priority is given to citizens and permanent residents."

Meanwhile, giving a mid-course update on MOH's $1.5-billion effort to recruit 7,700 more healthcare professionals over five years, Mr Khaw reported that since 2007, headcounts have increased by 44 per cent, There are now eight doctors instead of six per 10 beds, and 26 nurses instead of just 20 per 10 beds.

Young doctors can also look forward to better training opportunities, with $120 million to be spent on strengthening specialist training programmes over the next five years.

Another advice for those thinking of returning : it is wishful thinking if you are expecting your seniors to teach you something. They are too busy with themselves, and young docs are thrown into the deep end of the pool to sink or swim.
Furthermore, the current system provides limited placements for further training.

It's gonna take heaps more than a stupid grant attached to a bond to 'lure them home'. I feel more welcome in Aus than when I 'visit' Sgp during the summer. Both my folks are doctors in Sgp and they tell me to stay in Aus; I'm suspecting it's NOT because they hate me.

I love Sgp and I'd gladly give up my 'grant' and prospective salary for wiser allocation of healthcare funds. i.e. not a few million to the minister please!

Vote with awareness this coming elections all ye healthcare workers.
To all medical students (nurses and doctors),
do not come back to regret. Always explore overseas whether there is any option(s) remaining before coming back to Singapore.

Don't be stupid and die in Singapore.Mr Government, you are treading on trading/buying of souls here- is that the legacy of the PAP government, buying and selling souls?
If our educated have no heart to serve our countrymen, there is no point putting a bond on their souls. Resorting to gold and royalty treatment to get them back will poison their hearts further. We can't risk lives in the hands of "spoilt royalties" you know. And I certainly won't want them to treat me or my family - with no heart, they are unqualified practitioners!
I think the problems lies with you and how you have used money to motivate/buy your people - primarily your own kind.
Not a good idea to come home.

It will be a nightmarish time serving your 5 year bond? in the restructured hospitals.

And you will always play 2nd fiddle to those cheap foreign doctors.They take in a lot of PR... PAY FULL Med course fee for them, They become DOCTORS... PRs favourite PRs, Med sch in NUS have n?! % of PR's kid... so... Singaporean pay big bucks send their kid oversea to do Med, OUR excellent local kids become PR of others, contribute to others???!!! now they said short of DOCTORS??? Doctors works long hours!! Where are all those heavy funded scholars/PR? selling food in NUS?? Become chef? Merchant? PAP cannot be WRONG!!!The minister is always behind the curve, reacting only when things get blown up. It has always been known that there is a doctor shortage, and now the beds crunch. Why do we pay civil servants so much to do so little?
When is the MOH and the minister going to address the long hours put in by the doctors.
Overseas students should do a proper assessment of working conditions before they return. Many will not be able to tolerate the 30+ hours oncall.
Khaw can vow all he wants, but he's barking in the wrong direction.

The question should be, why aren't our kids in our local uni in the first place? The problem probably lies with the fact that the NUS medical school remains to be an elitist one and unnecessarily raises the entry requirements without considering other confounding factors.

I've had several friends who couldn't enter med school here, and chose to do so in the US/Australia/UK, etc. Life was extremely hard since they were not well-to-do, but that aside, they excelled tremendously! And I'm glad they chose to shun coming back here to work because they also found out that not only does the med school here to be too snooty, the work life of doctors here are too restricted and biased towards research grants.

The govt can dangle the dollar signs all they want, but it's really sad that they're really deaf frogs who have no clue about the root causes at all.If there are 2 students with equal degrees, one from the UK and another from NUS, who do u think will do extremely well in the A&E department in a hospital?

The same students take an examination. The NUS MBBS will beat the UK MBBS hands down. But, the UK student will beat the NUS MBBS hands down in the A&E department.

What is education to you? Just to collect the MBBS at your graduation or do you wanna be good? If you wanna be good, NUS is not the place for you.

I have studied in the UK and NUS and I am going to the USA.

Don't come back. Seek not what you can do for the country but what the country can do for you. This PAP gov is very irresponsible towards the people I totally agree with you GoshKosh. Why not put the money into training more medical students instead of using the money to come up with recruitment talks, exercises, campaigns etc. to draw foreign medical students back? However, if we have limited resources to train medical students, maybe MOH could propose giving scholarships for overseas Medicine and not just for nursing and allied health.

A local bond is a bond is a bond that can be broken too.Dear Mr Khaw,

Wouldn't it save everyone a lot more money if we just took in more medical students in our local institutions? Why spend a billion or billions recruiting people whom our institutions rejected in the first place?

A bond is a bond is a bond that can be broken.
Dear Mr Khaw,
I am a 3rd year medical student in Australia. Many of my pals, in fact half of the international student population in my university, are Singaporeans. It is sad that many would love to practice in Sydney instead of returning to Singapore. I hope that the grant could be implemented as soon as possible to assist us with our financial burdens and make foreign trained medical students want to return to our home country to work. Many policies are constantly being brought up, however, they do take a long time to be implemented. If this plan of giving out a grant is implemented quickly for students currently studying medicine overseas, it would be a great incentive for us to return to Singapore to work.

Dear Mr Khaw,
For God's sake, please leave these people alone. Australia offers a higher quality of life compare to the dictatorship. You want them to come back and be dogs? I am leaving to do a Ph.D. in medicine and I am not coming back to be a dog of the PAP.

MOH mulling grants for S'porean medical students studying overseas
By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 09 March 2010 1621 hrs

SINGAPORE: Public hospitals are studying the idea of offering pre-employment grants to Singaporean medical students studying overseas, to help them with their cost, in return for a bond to serve after they graduate.

Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan revealed this in Parliament as he laid out his ministry's priorities for the year.

19-year-old Singaporean, Evetor Sim, recently graduated from an international school in China. In September, she will head to the University of Manchester to study medicine. Her parents are forking out some $300,000 in tuition fees.

A grant, she said, will help ease the financial burden, but the concern is the bond that may be tied to this grant.

She said: "I would definitely take into serious consideration the grant because doing a medical degree overseas is very expensive and the living expenses also are very expensive. I think the only thing that holds me back from signing on for this scheme is the inflexibility of having to return back after your studies and having to serve your bond with the government hospitals."

Locally-trained doctors, who receive subsidies in the medical school, are already bonded to work at public hospitals for up to five years after graduation.

NUS medical students are bonded for five years. Duke-NUS Graduate medical students who are Singaporeans are bonded for four years, while PRs and international students are bonded five years.

The Singapore Medical Association says bringing in locals trained overseas will plug the gap to meet demand for doctors in the years ahead.

Dr Chong Yeh Woei, president of Singapore Medical Association, said: "I think with the shortage of doctors, the most important thing is we can bring in foreign doctors but I believe our local patients would still want locally-trained doctors or local doctors to treat them. I think this is because of the cultural context and the languages that we speak."

The proposal to get more local doctors is part of the government's plan for healthcare as Singaporeans grow older and live longer.

There will be greater emphasis on geriatric as well as mental health, with S$120 million set aside to strengthen specialist training over the next five years.

Another S$57 million will go into enhancing follow-up care for mental health patients.

Mr Khaw said: "Our follow-up care is getting better but we know there are still gaps. MPs' comments earlier confirm this. I am therefore adding a further $57m for mental health initiatives, on top of the $123m already committed. This is a significant $180m commitment to enhancing our mental health programme.

"Part of the new budget will be used to increase psychiatric nursing manpower. Another will go towards setting up a long term monitoring and risk assessment system. It will help identify and provide support for patients who default follow-up appointments for treatment, thereby reducing the number who relapse because they do not take their medication."

Responding to concerns that the increase in foreign worker levies will hit nursing homes, Mr Khaw said his ministry will raise the subsidies for such homes by about 7 percent to help them cope with the higher cost of operations.

Other healthcare initiatives include plans for three new nursing homes and rebuilding three old ones in larger facilities in better locations within HDB towns.

The minister described the restructuring of the healthcare system in Singapore as a quiet revolution. He said if done well, results will show in 10 years. The key is to avoid unnecessary hospitalisation, have better integration between hospitals and community partners as well as help patients achieve successful aging at home.

CSP = Commonwealth Supported Place. Most of the local students have CSPs, which means that they get discounted fees and priority for internships. The rest of the local students are full fee-paying, and their fees are almost as high as ours

NSW's IMET (institute of medical education/training) just put out the information for how they'll allocate internship places in the near future. Starting in 2011, the international student disadvantage will become less of a disadvantage. Here's a quick summary:

1. Local CSP students will be guaranteed an internship.
2. After all of the CSP students get their internships, there will be no preference given to domestic students. All applications will be judged on merit.

That means that international students are no longer "last-priority" for internships. Sure, it's still not guaranteed, but now we know that we'll at least be competing with the local students instead of just being shuffled to the back of the line.

Also, ANU grads (100 people) will no longer be included in the NSW internship pool, so that lessens the blow of the new graduating class from UoW (I think that's less than 100 people).

Most of the local students have a CSP spot, so this isn't a night-and-day difference... but it does significantly increase our chances of getting an internship. Instead of being at the bottom of the list and fighting for a place with other international students, we'll be competing with the domestic students who were at the bottom of the admissions list.

By the way I talked to the admission dean at University of Sydney. She said that currently, there is no problem for international students getting internships but in four years, they do expect having difficulty to place international students (IMG + international students trained for MBBS in Aussie) for internship or residency in Australia in general, including rural areas. That's discouraging, but c'est la vie, like the French said.

Originally Posted by Dr.Millisevert
That is correct. You can also go to the US/Canada/UK, etc. You just have to complete the same internship paperwork and prove that you have completed the same runs/attachments and have completed the same goals and objectives for each attachment. (ie. that your internship is equivalent to an Australian one)

I just read that UK put a restriction on international medical graduates and international students studying in UK to come to / stay in UK as a doctor in training. The restriction came in force in February 2008, so I think it will be very hard, if not impossible, to get internship in UK?

I heard that due to the increasing number of medical graduates, they (Australian schools) could not guarantee internship posts for international students. On the other hand, internship is compulsory for medical registration- so how is this going to be?

Or can we do internship outside Australia? For example, after graduating with MBBS from Aussie, then we do one year internship in Singapore, then go back to Aussie to continue residency/specialist training? If so, what countries are the options to do internship
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Briefly yes it's possible.

The AMC recognises internships from Malaysia, Singapore and New Zealand. There may be other recognised countries but those are the three that are considered equivalent to Australian internship.
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Also I think you can go rural, can't you? From what I've heard there will be a lot of spots open in rural areas?

ISAT Scores for Critical Reasoning (CR), Quantitative Reasoning (QR) and Overall Reasoning (OR) are scaled in the range of 100-200.

ISAT scores are comparable between different versions of the test.

Percentiles (%ILE) show the percentage of candidates whose scores are lower than the reported ISAT score.


Critical Reasoning Quantitative Reasoning Overall Reasoning
SCORE %ILE SCORE %ILE SCORE %ILE
178 81 185 91 182 89

Typical skills measured by ISAT:

Critical Reasoning

Analyse information to determine the key claims or issues.
Draw approppriate inferences and recognise main implications.
Relate claims or information beyond the immediate context.
Evaluate the significance and credibility of claims or information.

Quantitative Reasoning

Analyse and categorise material to identify key information, and comprehend and summarise relationships.
Make inferences and decisions based on evidence.
Transform, reorganise, synthesise and apply information as appropriate for problems and decision making situations.
Conceptualise a strategy to solve problems or identify solutions.

Overall Reasoning

Comprehend, analyse and apply information, transforming it as appropriate.
Evaluate information, evidence and claims.
Draw appropriate inferences and make reasoned decisions.
Generate and evaluate solutions to problems.

OMFG I've been notified of an early decision interview in May for Flinders University by Dr. Tony Edwards!!!

I've never even got an interview for the US meds; having been offered an interview put a smile on my face. Makes me feel like I'm not such a failure after all. I've been feeling that way ever since every single US medical school rejected me without even an interview offer. But now I actually have something to hope for!

But... now what? I've got an interview, but how do I prepare for it? Getting an interview is only half the battle. It would suck if I underestimated the interviews and didn't get in because of that =/. Hmm... I know there are some threads on the paging dr. boards with past interview questions, I think I'll start with that

Yep, I was in a hurry and wrote CSP instead of MRBS.
Im not the army type, but seriously, if you need the money, then join the army after the first year. You get over 30k per annum, subsidised rent and food and no hecs debt for the remainder of the degree, and then you owe them the number of years they paid you during your degree (3, generally) after graduation. (This is opposed to the deal where you sign up as soon as you get your offer, which sees you getting paid heaps more, but then you owe them 6-8 years of service.) Sure, you may wind up being a glorified pecker-checker for a good portion of that, but I have also spoken to doctors who recieved the most amazing access to speciality training of their choice through the armed forces.
And JJJJ, if your young and know for certain that you want to go into rural practice in certain specialities, then the MRBS can be OK, but for those of us who are older and have small children, it is a big gamble, you just dont know where you are going to be. What if I want to go overseas? What if my kids want to be somewhere that I couldnt be? What if I fell in love with a speciality that couldnt be supported by the right area, or what if some other offer came up that I couldnt take? Even though I want to go into rural practice, and have strong feelings about it, I also have my partner to consider, and he may not be so chuffed with me effectively signing his life away along with mine.
Also, I have been on the recieving end of supposedly attractive government funding that turned out be effectively a deferred screw job, so, once bitten and all that.
I would just suggest that any applicant who is interested actually get the information thats available and look through things like the approximated time-line of an MRBS, and for the love of all thats good, when they say that they reccomend that all applicants get a lawyer to read it and advise them, take that advice!!!

ing this message because it makes a very valuable point. I did not apply for a MRBS when I was looking into med school entry, because of this very issue. At the time, I was single and free to do what I wished with my life. Now, as a trainee, I am five years into a relationship with a guy who professionally couldn't re-locate to a rural area (and indeed, I don't think he'd want to, either). Being unable to look into the future makes it hard to sign on the dotted line for a lot of people – young and old alike.

Leka, given that BMPs are reasonably new to the Australian system, it's difficult to make a judgement based on the experience of others at this point. We are yet to see the repercussions of bonded scholarships within the workforce itself (we're only just seeing the effect of the rural bonded scholarships, which were first phased in around 2001), so there's still a lot to come out in the wash at this point

am glad to read this thread!
I actually placed BMP as my first preference. I think: i didn't get into medicine to be comfortable, to just 'get by' or to climb the heirachy or anything like that. I want to contribute to the crisis out there! I am proud of you BMP-holders! Let's make the most of this opportunity, make connections, attend conferences and get as much experience/ perspective about how to help those who are less fortunate (accessibility wise). I wish you all the best of luck